Three Herbs Protected Against 5mg Finasteride (Study)

Trump_1776

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#41
Look at his very last post before he left the forum not his initial one.
Where he says he did it temporarily? Yeah I don't think it's needed long term either. Thing is, T3 brings my body odor/pit odor back. I haven't tried it for any extensive time though. Perhaps I should.

Clomid on the other hand, man, it really just doesn't agree with me that well. Again, haven't stayed with it for any considerable amount of time and perhaps I should.

Pramipexole brings back libido for an hour or so, and abstaining from masturbation makes me go absolutely insane. I mean, getting penile feelings from looking at fleshlights. Strength and rigidity is still not there though
 
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Boris

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#42
Where he says he did it temporarily? Yeah I don't think it's needed long term either. Thing is, T3 brings my body odor/pit odor back. I haven't tried it for any extensive time though. Perhaps I should.

Clomid on the other hand, man, it really just doesn't agree with me that well. Again, haven't stayed with it for any considerable amount of time and perhaps I should.

Pramipexole brings back libido for an hour or so, and abstaining from masturbation makes me go absolutely insane. I mean, getting penile feelings from looking at fleshlights. Strength and rigidity is still not there though
I agree T3 could potentially help, but cure, I dont think so. I did get a few benefits from T3 a few years back but it only worked on the first few doses and then stopped. But there is plenty anecdotal evidence that it doesn't really work in the long term for PFS. Look at JustQuitDut and @slader1 and pretty much every PFS person that is on RPF. T3 is a bandaid if it does help the person in the first place.

I'm not saying clomid is the answer, I'm just using it an example for time being of the possibility of stimulating LH while lowering estrogen to jump start HPTA. Too much clomid can have the reverse effects in a negative sense hence why I talked about dosage. And I'm not sure which AI would be appropriate to use. The gut in that log actually used sustain alpha with clomid.
 

Trump_1776

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#43
I agree T3 could potentially help, but cure, I dont think so. I did get a few benefits from T3 a few years back but it only worked on the first few doses and then stopped. But there is plenty anecdotal evidence that it doesn't really work in the long term for PFS. Look at JustQuitDut and @slader1 and pretty much every PFS person that is on RPF. T3 is a bandaid if it does help the person in the first place.

I'm not saying clomid is the answer, I'm just using it an example for time being of the possibility of stimulating LH while lowering estrogen to jump start HPTA. Too much clomid can have the reverse effects in a negative sense hence why I talked about dosage. And I'm not sure which AI would be appropriate to use. The gut in that log actually used sustain alpha with clomid.
I agree. I really don't know. It may fill some gaps. Are you using clomid?
 

Boris

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#44
I agree. I really don't know. It may fill some gaps. Are you using clomid?
No not yet, experimenting with TRS stack right now naturally. So far, I cannot take the toco 8, which is vitamin E. Feel very weird on it and signs of wasted sodium so I dropped it.

Sustain alpha and endoamp are good so far, I like them both.
 

Boris

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#45
Bulbine also increase LH/FSH - couldn't find any existing logs with this herb on PH, not sure if it has been tried with PFS yet
Anabolic and androgenic activities of Bulbine natalensis stem in male Wistar rats. - PubMed - NCBI

This is also brings me back to my original point, has anyone tried tribulus with an natural or even synthetic AI before? I'm genuinely curious since trib is a hit or miss. Some people can't use it at all and feel like shit right away (either from increasing estrogen further) others feel good for a while then crash (possibly from estrogen). Hence why I'm curious to see if anyone tried combing a natural aromatase inhibitor with tribulus.

@Trump_1776 found your post on AM btw :) I'm always on anabolic minds, but I suspect you felt like shit from inhibit-e since your LH is shot. Maybe would be worth trying inhibit-e with some sort of LH stimulation (besides tongkat and mucuna) and see bc I think inhibit E works more on the estrogen recepto, but not sure since there are multiple ingredients. Maybe trib (or HCG) + inhibit-e? or trib/bulbine+inibit-e+inhibit p to cover all areas.

Why would I require a large amount of Arimidex (Brand name) for estrogen control, but very little SNS Inhibit E? - AnabolicMinds.com
 
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MCurtone

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#46
Remember when I was on fin I was taking progesterone, zinc, DIM and Calcium-D-Glucarate, all to reduce estrogenic load and felt really good.
 

Walker

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#47
Bulbine also increase LH/FSH - couldn't find any existing logs with this herb on PH, not sure if it has been tried with PFS yet
Anabolic and androgenic activities of Bulbine natalensis stem in male Wistar rats. - PubMed - NCBI

This is also brings me back to my original point, has anyone tried tribulus with an natural or even synthetic AI before? I'm genuinely curious since trib is a hit or miss. Some people can't use it at all and feel like shit right away (either from increasing estrogen further) others feel good for a while then crash (possibly from estrogen). Hence why I'm curious to see if anyone tried combing a natural aromatase inhibitor with tribulus.

@Trump_1776 found your post on AM btw :) I'm always on anabolic minds, but I suspect you felt like shit from inhibit-e since your LH is shot. Maybe would be worth trying inhibit-e with some sort of LH stimulation (besides tongkat and mucuna) and see bc I think inhibit E works more on the estrogen recepto, but not sure since there are multiple ingredients. Maybe trib (or HCG) + inhibit-e? or trib/bulbine+inibit-e+inhibit p to cover all areas.

Why would I require a large amount of Arimidex (Brand name) for estrogen control, but very little SNS Inhibit E? - AnabolicMinds.com
I ran Bulbine in my recovery as one of my herbs. I used the Barlowe’s brand. I posted about this one and Fadogia, on my Swole Source log. Both helped for sure.
 
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Boris

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#48
I ran Bulbine in my recovery as one of my herbs. I used the Barlowe’s brand. I posted about this one and Fadogia, on my Swole Source log. Both helped for sure.
Yeah they both stimulate LH they hardest, did you cycle them or take them consistently for a period of time. Only reason I'm asking is because it seems like both bulbine and fadogia seem to take like a week to fully kick in
 

Helen

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#49
@Boris LH is suppressed since adrenals are making hormones. That is my theory.

this is why you have to suppress adrenals and then take clomid))


this is why we had people take t3 clomid and cycle of cortisol and recover


This is what I suggested to Mcurtone is happening.

as possibility.


Watch jinstewart recover. I think he has a chance. of course if his problem was not from antihistamine.

May be if balls are damaged, they simply dont work.

clomid can increase andrenals also, the same as balls.
 
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Trump_1776

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#50
@Boris LH is suppressed since adrenals are making hormones. That is my theory.

this is why you have to suppress adrenals and then take clomid))


this is why we had people take t3 clomid and cycle of cortisol and recover


This is what I suggested to Mcurtone is happening.

as possibility.


Watch jinstewart recover. I think he has a chance. of course if his problem was not from antihistamine.
I'll bite
 

Helen

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#52
The weirdest thing has been happening


I know I’ve told my story before but it’s been a while and here it is in a nutshell since this will be my last thread on here:

Started taking 1mg Propecia ED in November 2008
Increased dosage to 2.5mg Finasteride ED in March 2009

No noticeable sexual side effects until spring 2011. Looking back though I had stopped having nocturnal, morning and spontaneous erections within a few weeks of first starting Propecia. But I had my sex drive and I had my erections when I needed them so I didn’t eve think about any issues.

I started to notice a massive drop in sex drive in early 2011: I masturbated because it was routine not because I was horny. And for the first time I had several sex partners mention that my penis wasn’t “hard enough” or “you’re not fully hard yet” even though it was all that was possible back then. That obviously made me quite upset and got me thinking. It was also then that I noticed I haven’t had morning wood in years. I know, how can you not notice that? But I just didn’t. That’s when I first thought Finasteride could be the cause of my mess since it was the only prescription drug I was taking and I at least heard from my doctor back then that some people have sexual sides but that it’s probably all just in people’s minds because the placebo group in the trials had an almost similar rate. So nothing to worry about. Oh well yeah…

I decided to quit cold-turkey in August 2011 to see what would happen. It’s important to note that by then I have not done any online research or went on any of the forums.

Within a few days I had massive night sweats (really waking up soaked wet) and constant boners, it seemed like my T or whatever other steroid hormones went through the roof.

And then, after a few weeks, it all crashed - all gone again and actually worse than ever. The whole spectrum of sexual sides and suddenly massive sleeping problems which I NEVER had before…the whole party.

Things slowly got better and by December 2011 I felt 90% recovered.

And then I did the most stupid thing. Having gotten anxious again about my hair which I lost at an for me alarming rate, I took ONE 0.25mg Propecia in February 2012 and everything completely crashed right away. And this time, things wouldn’t improve again.

I tried all kinds of supplements which helped for a few days but didn’t really change things beyond that. I had some success with Tamoxifen in summer 2012 but after around 6 weeks the effect wore off and I was back to bad. Interestingly though I have lost all my hair again I gained while on Fin and more so DHT seems to alive and kickin. I don’t want to go into more detail because my life has been completely dominated by PFS ever since.

For the following year I tried everything I read on forums like this one:
TRT in all dosages, AIs like Arimidex, Andractim, Primobolan, HGH injections, Seligiline, Dostinex … and much, much more. I have been the ultimate guinea pig. Everything I did would have some effect but it would either wear off again after just a day or two or would only affect things like appetite (e.g. while on high TRT dosages) but not the sexual issues.

These past months though I have made some significant progress. And I really don’t know why that is.

I did however change my attitude: I stopped focussing on the parts in my life that are adversely affected by PFS, I started a paleo/keto diet (with one cheat day a week), I continue to work out 5 to 6 times a week (which I did before already but I rotate my exercises more and lift heavier) and gained significant amounts of lean muscle - probably also because of my very high protein intake and under 50 grams of carbohydrates a day. I try to live an overall more “zen” lifestyle, really focussing on all the good stuff I have in my life and dropped every medication I considered not essential including Xanax, Ambien and other stuff to help me sleep. Turns out that while I may not sleep as well as I’d like to, that too is getting better.

The only drugs I continued to take were:
Clomid 50mg
T3/T4 (half the full replacement dosage)
and one 5-day cycle of 0.5mg Dexamethasone

As of now I am still on T3/T4 and nothing else.

I don’t know what helped me or if it was none of them but just time. Don’t they say that time heals all wounds?
Whatever it is, I don’t think there’s a quick fix. The fact is however that I have been waking up with morning wood pretty much every day for the past months (and it’s really good morning wood
), I also wake up with nocturnal erections and I get occasional spontaneous erections during the day again. And so far things still continue to get better. Slowly and with backlashes every once in a while - but if they happen it’s always one step back, two steps forward. I’d say I’m at around 80% of where I want to be today. Oh, and I also took a chance and started dating someone again
 

Trump_1776

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#53

Trump_1776

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May 5, 2018
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Donald Trump
#54
Bulbine also increase LH/FSH - couldn't find any existing logs with this herb on PH, not sure if it has been tried with PFS yet
Anabolic and androgenic activities of Bulbine natalensis stem in male Wistar rats. - PubMed - NCBI

This is also brings me back to my original point, has anyone tried tribulus with an natural or even synthetic AI before? I'm genuinely curious since trib is a hit or miss. Some people can't use it at all and feel like shit right away (either from increasing estrogen further) others feel good for a while then crash (possibly from estrogen). Hence why I'm curious to see if anyone tried combing a natural aromatase inhibitor with tribulus.

@Trump_1776 found your post on AM btw :) I'm always on anabolic minds, but I suspect you felt like shit from inhibit-e since your LH is shot. Maybe would be worth trying inhibit-e with some sort of LH stimulation (besides tongkat and mucuna) and see bc I think inhibit E works more on the estrogen recepto, but not sure since there are multiple ingredients. Maybe trib (or HCG) + inhibit-e? or trib/bulbine+inibit-e+inhibit p to cover all areas.

Why would I require a large amount of Arimidex (Brand name) for estrogen control, but very little SNS Inhibit E? - AnabolicMinds.com
I dont know man, that inhibit e sure is powerful. I'd like to not have to deal with estrogen at ALL
 

Boris

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Oct 3, 2017
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#55
@Boris LH is suppressed since adrenals are making hormones. That is my theory.

this is why you have to suppress adrenals and then take clomid))


this is why we had people take t3 clomid and cycle of cortisol and recover


This is what I suggested to Mcurtone is happening.

as possibility.


Watch jinstewart recover. I think he has a chance. of course if his problem was not from antihistamine.

May be if balls are damaged, they simply dont work.

clomid can increase andrenals also, the same as balls.
Say if stimulate LH properly and keep it turned on and functioning wouldnt that turn off adrenals (a good thing). I think that theory could make sense, since most people who have PFS mirror symptoms of adrenal fatigue
 
Last edited:

Boris

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Staff member
Oct 3, 2017
2,778
2,293
113
#56
The weirdest thing has been happening


I know I’ve told my story before but it’s been a while and here it is in a nutshell since this will be my last thread on here:

Started taking 1mg Propecia ED in November 2008
Increased dosage to 2.5mg Finasteride ED in March 2009

No noticeable sexual side effects until spring 2011. Looking back though I had stopped having nocturnal, morning and spontaneous erections within a few weeks of first starting Propecia. But I had my sex drive and I had my erections when I needed them so I didn’t eve think about any issues.

I started to notice a massive drop in sex drive in early 2011: I masturbated because it was routine not because I was horny. And for the first time I had several sex partners mention that my penis wasn’t “hard enough” or “you’re not fully hard yet” even though it was all that was possible back then. That obviously made me quite upset and got me thinking. It was also then that I noticed I haven’t had morning wood in years. I know, how can you not notice that? But I just didn’t. That’s when I first thought Finasteride could be the cause of my mess since it was the only prescription drug I was taking and I at least heard from my doctor back then that some people have sexual sides but that it’s probably all just in people’s minds because the placebo group in the trials had an almost similar rate. So nothing to worry about. Oh well yeah…

I decided to quit cold-turkey in August 2011 to see what would happen. It’s important to note that by then I have not done any online research or went on any of the forums.

Within a few days I had massive night sweats (really waking up soaked wet) and constant boners, it seemed like my T or whatever other steroid hormones went through the roof.

And then, after a few weeks, it all crashed - all gone again and actually worse than ever. The whole spectrum of sexual sides and suddenly massive sleeping problems which I NEVER had before…the whole party.

Things slowly got better and by December 2011 I felt 90% recovered.

And then I did the most stupid thing. Having gotten anxious again about my hair which I lost at an for me alarming rate, I took ONE 0.25mg Propecia in February 2012 and everything completely crashed right away. And this time, things wouldn’t improve again.

I tried all kinds of supplements which helped for a few days but didn’t really change things beyond that. I had some success with Tamoxifen in summer 2012 but after around 6 weeks the effect wore off and I was back to bad. Interestingly though I have lost all my hair again I gained while on Fin and more so DHT seems to alive and kickin. I don’t want to go into more detail because my life has been completely dominated by PFS ever since.

For the following year I tried everything I read on forums like this one:
TRT in all dosages, AIs like Arimidex, Andractim, Primobolan, HGH injections, Seligiline, Dostinex … and much, much more. I have been the ultimate guinea pig. Everything I did would have some effect but it would either wear off again after just a day or two or would only affect things like appetite (e.g. while on high TRT dosages) but not the sexual issues.

These past months though I have made some significant progress. And I really don’t know why that is.

I did however change my attitude: I stopped focussing on the parts in my life that are adversely affected by PFS, I started a paleo/keto diet (with one cheat day a week), I continue to work out 5 to 6 times a week (which I did before already but I rotate my exercises more and lift heavier) and gained significant amounts of lean muscle - probably also because of my very high protein intake and under 50 grams of carbohydrates a day. I try to live an overall more “zen” lifestyle, really focussing on all the good stuff I have in my life and dropped every medication I considered not essential including Xanax, Ambien and other stuff to help me sleep. Turns out that while I may not sleep as well as I’d like to, that too is getting better.

The only drugs I continued to take were:
Clomid 50mg
T3/T4 (half the full replacement dosage)
and one 5-day cycle of 0.5mg Dexamethasone

As of now I am still on T3/T4 and nothing else.

I don’t know what helped me or if it was none of them but just time. Don’t they say that time heals all wounds?
Whatever it is, I don’t think there’s a quick fix. The fact is however that I have been waking up with morning wood pretty much every day for the past months (and it’s really good morning wood
), I also wake up with nocturnal erections and I get occasional spontaneous erections during the day again. And so far things still continue to get better. Slowly and with backlashes every once in a while - but if they happen it’s always one step back, two steps forward. I’d say I’m at around 80% of where I want to be today. Oh, and I also took a chance and started dating someone again
Is he cured though seems like he says he still takes t3/t4 still though?

I'm a little skeptical on this one since dexa alone is powerful enough
 

Trump_1776

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#57
Is he cured though seems like he says he still takes t3/t4 still though?

I'm a little skeptical on this one since dexa alone is powerful enough
Says he does t shots
 

Trump_1776

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#58
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MCurtone

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#59
So lets get this straight:

Clomid (to start the axis, get LH and FSH flowing)
Dostinex (lowers prolactin -> increases hormone output even more)
Aromatase Inhibitor (lower estrogen to prevent shutdown of axis recurring)
Cortisol/Cortisone/Dexamethasone (to shutdown the adrenals and force hormone production from testies)

Is this all correct? As far as cortisol goes, does dexa actually work? What's the difference between cortisol/cortisone/dexa and others?

This really does make sense. If our balls are shut down and our adrenals are over-compensating, but we cannot start the normal axis due to estrogen build-up at the same time...then this really does make sense.

I always wondered how some people got cured from surgeries or cortisol. Maybe it shuts down their adrenals so that axis can start up again as normal.

How does GHB play into this? Does ghb only work on gaba system or can it also work on adrenals? Where does THDOC come into play? All very interesting.
 

Walker

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Oct 7, 2017
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Mountain Brook, AL
#60
Yeah they both stimulate LH they hardest, did you cycle them or take them consistently for a period of time. Only reason I'm asking is because it seems like both bulbine and fadogia seem to take like a week to fully kick in
I cycled them in CD's method. Would be interesting to run them for awhile to see what happens.