Three Herbs Protected Against 5mg Finasteride (Study)

MCurtone

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#21
I'm totally open to doing a clomid protocol, but with dostinex and maybe an anti aromatase. Not right now, but if the protocol I am on does not work within 6 months, I will do that.

1. B2 protocol to enable enzyme systems and get b12/histamine working.
2. Malic acid every day for NADPH support and soften liver stones
3. Liver flush every 2-3 weeks - Purge toxic bile and heavy metals
4. If iron overload is suspected, regular blood donations/plebotomies to draw iron out of the liver
5. Daily copper + vitamin a from beef liver to support pulling iron out of the liver
6. Borax daily for hormonal support and dealing with candida
7. Reestablish gut flora with goat milk and fermented products/probiotics
8. Add more foods and live off of meat, seafood, eggs, dairy and some starch

If that routine I have planned fails, then I will do the clomid and dostinex etc.

Right now I am doing 1 and 2, starting 3 next weekend.
 

Helen

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#22
Yeah nolvadex upregulates progesterone receptor

nolvadex inhibits both er-a and er-b

clomid is er-a agonist, so estrogen. and inhibits er-b



In couple of studies on PFS I saw that er-a was upregulated and er-b downregulated in PFS. I will try to find that.
 

Boris

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#23

Boris

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#24
@Boris thanks for the comment in my thread, I will ask for LH test. Funny you mentioned onions. I pretty much always have constant ball ache now but my prostate flared last night after heaving a peppered steak saute'd dinner with lots of onions.
Np...wish someone would try onion powder or raw onion juice as well.
 

MCurtone

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#25
Np...wish someone would try onion powder or raw onion juice as well.
I've juiced my own onions and drank it before, long before finasteride because of the testosterone boost. Yes, libido goes high, same as when I consume garlic. However the damage it causes to the stomach and intestines is not pleasurable.

Drinking onion juice on an empty stomach alone is painful. I was tossing and turning in bed for 30 minutes.
 

Boris

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#26
I've juiced my own onions and drank it before, long before finasteride because of the testosterone boost. Yes, libido goes high, same as when I consume garlic. However the damage it causes to the stomach and intestines is not pleasurable.

Drinking onion juice on an empty stomach alone is painful. I was tossing and turning in bed for 30 minutes.
Would be good to try post fin, maybe worth putting up with the pain for a day or two. I wonder if the onion powder would have the same impact on the stomach.

I'm just not exactly sure how onions interact with estrogen though
 

Trump_1776

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#27
Im thinking of trying natural route first for LH. The TR stack that was previously made by PP and used by CD for his recovery. Basically focuses on all LH aspects while increasing LH and lower estrogen. Not to mention they have anti viral and immune benefiting properties as well. Already have endoamp so may give that a try first before trying anything else.

Testosterone Recovery Stack (TRS)
Gosh look at that price tag doe
 

K8668B

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#28
Yes I felt pretty bad ON clomid but very horny, and then when I came off, within a few days or a week I started feeling cured in a way.

This was not the case when the clomid + nolvadex cycle though.
Same exact happened to me on Clomid. Minus feeling horny. But I got the same exact temporary snapback too.
 

Boris

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#29
https://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(14)01006-1/abstract\

Sixteen percent of infertile men treated with clomiphene citrate for low testosterone require combination therapy with an aromatase inhibitor

Men being evaluated for male factor infertility are often found to have low testosterone. Clomiphene citrate (CC) is a selective estrogen receptor modulator used off-label to stimulate endogenous testosterone production in hypogonadal men being treated for infertility. In some patients, CC leads to elevated estradiol levels, necessitating combination therapy with an aromatase inhibitor, such as anastrozole (AZ). The objectives of this project were to (1) determine the previously unreported rate of conversion from CC monotherapy to combination therapy with CC+AZ in hypogonadal men being treated for infertility, and (2) test the hypothesis that men needing combination therapy with CC+AZ would have higher body mass index (BMI) compared to men maintained on CC monotherapy.
 
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Boris

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#30
I'm just brainstorming here, but also found a very "brief" log on clomid + AI, I think this guy did it for one day and of course was doing good then fucked it up by applying DHT gel after a bit, but had good results initially. He also may have bee on TRT while doing I can't really tell from his post.

What users have used clomid and AI?

THis is what i did.

I was on 100mg test for trt.

I took 12mg clomid. 4 hours later my voice dropped, my dick grew, my libido came back everything reversed. This lasted 12 hours. The following day i woke up with high estrogen symptoms and i took 0.25mg arimidex. 3 hours later i felt like yesterday but 10x better i felt like i was high on a drug it lasted 8 hours this time.
The following day i woke up with high estrogen feelings again so i took arimidex and it didnt work and i got worse and worse and gave up so i applied DHT gel. 30mins later my dick grew, voice dropped libido came back. It only lasted an hour then i got worse.


Before taking clomid, dht gel did nothing. So somehow clomid allowed my DHT to work again but it wasnt very sustainable.

I think for PFS sake we need to look over serms again but in LOW doses . I mean like 2.5mg nolva once a week. There are lots of guys that recovered on nolva then crashed. Its got nothing to do with test levels IMO i was on trt and ive tried higher doses in the past.

As for the OP. Try 2.5mg nolva 2x a week.
 
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Helen

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#31
@Boris he was on TRT))))

as you see all these people Mccurtone, K866, they get snap back while OFF clomid.


And those who have high DHT , they feel on clomid. since clomid blocks their er-b. These folks felt NOTHING on clomid. they felt like shit.

Same as Willylong. he feels recovered when his estrogen is twice the range on TRT. When estrogen falls, he feels back to PFS.

We should not forget about that.



Clomid raises SHBG. also.




the idea was to make LH less sensitive, Clomid does that according to the studies.


Look at @K8668B tests. He took clomid for a week with AI. and his LH is SKY high now. K8668B's log

He came off clomid AI and now has high LH. since it got insensitive. SO it works as that study claims.


We need to see where the LH suppression in people is coming from.

Testosterone can be high just because SHBG is high. you can literally produce low hormones, and SHBG will keep them in blood.
 
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Boris

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#32
@Boris he was on TRT))))

as you see all these people Mccurtone, K866, they get snap back while OFF clomid.


And those who have high DHT , they feel on clomid. since clomid blocks their er-b. These folks felt NOTHING on clomid. they felt like shit.

Same as Willylong. he feels recovered when his estrogen is twice the range on TRT. When estrogen falls, he feels back to PFS.

We should not forget about that.



Clomid raises SHBG. also.




the idea was to make LH less sensitive, Clomid does that according to the studies.


Look at @K8668B tests. He took clomid for a week with AI. and his LH is SKY high now. K8668B's log

He came off clomid AI and now has high LH. since it got insensitive. SO it works as that study claims.


We need to see where the LH suppression in people is coming from.

Testosterone can be high just because SHBG is high. you can literally produce low hormones, and SHBG will keep them in blood.
KB felt better on low dose clomid, at least what I can tell from his log, which has been consistent with all the logs I have seen on PH (12-15mg).

50mg is a huge dose and clomid has a bell shaped curve even for normal people or recovering steroid users who feel like shit on high doses. You don't need 50mg to make LH less sensitive, could probably even do it with less than 12.5 mg as well. So you could feel better while ON if the clomid does it low enough

Please don't use willylong as an example LOL that dude was on so much drugs year round
 

Helen

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#33
@Boris as I wrote to you , people who feel goo on clomid are those with high DHT))

since DHT in their cass turns into 3 beta adiol which is agonist of er- b , estrogen receptor BETA

those people feel better and cured on clomid, WHile on it, and when you they getoff, they feel nothing

since clomid is estrogen receptor beta antagonist.


both KB and Mccurtone felt like shit on clomid. while on it, but better when off of it.
 
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Boris

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#34
@Boris as I wrote to you , people who feel goo on clomid are those with high DHT))

since DHT in their cass turns into 3 beta adiol which is agonist of er- b , estrogen receptor BETA

those people feel better and cured on clomid, WHile on it, and when you they getoff, they feel nothing

since clomid is estrogen receptor beta antagonist.


both KB and Mccurtone felt like shit on clomid. while on it, but better when off of it.
Who are you going off with this high DHT theory ))? KB and Mcurtone both had different reactions on clomid.

Mcurtone = felt like shit but horny as hell
KB = libido did not change (or slightly decreased), had random increase in energy at times

@Trump_1776 @Andy5 and myself all have low LH yet different hormone profiles. What I'm saying is that I think LH is worth more looking into not at more down stream hormones like DHT. I'm not saying clomid is the answer, I'm actually looking at disrupting or reseting the current LH signaling status with PFS. And it looks like micro or very small doses are potentially capable of doing that.

What I'm saying is that higher dose of clomid does not act the same as low dose at all, even with people without PFS, people feel like shit on higher doses of clomid - it is toxic.

Check out this dude who claimed recovery from very low dose clomid and OTC/natural aromatase inhibitors. He is said that he felt like shit on 12.5mg of clomid but not 6.25mg per day so it is does dependent.

Story and Recovery after 7 years.

I have felt fantastic with clomid at 6.25mg per day (very low dose) for the past few weeks. I feel terrible at 12.5mg per day if this dose is run long term.

Since I last posted - I have noticed my facial hair, neck hair, leg hair arm hair etc has all increased gradually. My body composition is changing to what it was pre - propecia ie lean and muscular. My body temperature has increased, my whole body including my penis is warmer and my skin is more red. Perhaps my DHT/T metablosim has up-regulated, this is very encouraging.

Erections, sperm volume/thickness is improved/ orgasms better.
 

Helen

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#36
@Boris I am not arguing with you, where do you even get it. I posted the studies to you about the actual LH and how clomid downregulates its sensitivity

Go try it. and I told and suggested clomid and AI since according to the studies that is what downregulates LH sensitivity. And I think that is a direct method to do that.


KB did this, his LH went screaming as you can see from his blog. So clomid and AI worked. It downregulated his LH sensitivity.





But at the same time I am mentioning to you the points which need to be mentioned. Since I see you post to Mccurtone, how when he got off clomid , clomid wore off and he felt worse.


I am just saying to you that Mccurtone and KB both had snap backs when got off the clomid that is when they felt better.



Since as I told you already, in PFS there is er-a and er-b imbalance, which is proven by actual studies))


clomid itself is estrogenic since it is er-a agonist, that is why you can feel bad on it, and have like optic nerv problems, which you dont get on nolvadex.

that is why low dosage feels better since feels way less estrogenic.


in Any case, I suggested clomid and AI , so try it, why are you looking at other people.

their reactions could be totally differnt from yours.


you talk about this for a month,, go on low dose clomid and see how you feel. Why look at KB or Mccurtone. or any other people.


As I mentioned to you, KB took clomid with AI and now his LH is screaming. So clomid with AI works, to downregulate LH sensitivity. It is clear. And matches what that study said.
 
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Helen

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#37
@MCurtone the guy was a slow oxidizer, he took the thyroid plus test plus clomid plus HC. which makes sense. As I rec'd this regimen already for god knows how long.

to me in majority cases, PFS became hypothyroid. with high reverse t3. That is why those people by adding thyroid immediately feel cured. since they start feeling their estrogen. And without thyroid, their LH will be low.
 
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Helen

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#38
@Boris


To me the LH regulation is the problem in PFS. as I mentioned that in all my theories.

the question is , is the problem that it is sensitive, or the problem is it is suppressed

That is what we are trying to figure out in this thread.


If the suppression is stemming from AR or ER imabalance,or GABA imbalance ( those are usual suppressors) or LH is just sensitive, we will never know playing with clomids and resveratrols


since those things affect the suppresive mechanisms also

Like sustain alpha, it affects GABA which is the main suppressant.

it affects AR and ER with resveratrol which are the main suppressants of LH.


It does not just push LH out of blue) it kills the suppressants.


That is why I am saying to you that playing with clomid and resveratrol and gaba , is playing with estrogen receptors ARs and gaba which is understandable in PFS and the direct suspects of the imbalance.


but if we want to see the direct LH sensitivity downregulation, that is HCG plus AI.

Clomid also downregulates LH sensivitiy according to the studies. So if you think your problem is LH sensiivity, then clomid can also downregulate it as we saw in KB experiement.
 
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Trump_1776

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#39
Who are you going off with this high DHT theory ))? KB and Mcurtone both had different reactions on clomid.

Mcurtone = felt like shit but horny as hell
KB = libido did not change (or slightly decreased), had random increase in energy at times

@Trump_1776 @Andy5 and myself all have low LH yet different hormone profiles. What I'm saying is that I think LH is worth more looking into not at more down stream hormones like DHT. I'm not saying clomid is the answer, I'm actually looking at disrupting or reseting the current LH signaling status with PFS. And it looks like micro or very small doses are potentially capable of doing that.

What I'm saying is that higher dose of clomid does not act the same as low dose at all, even with people without PFS, people feel like shit on higher doses of clomid - it is toxic.

Check out this dude who claimed recovery from very low dose clomid and OTC/natural aromatase inhibitors. He is said that he felt like shit on 12.5mg of clomid but not 6.25mg per day so it is does dependent.

Story and Recovery after 7 years.

I have felt fantastic with clomid at 6.25mg per day (very low dose) for the past few weeks. I feel terrible at 12.5mg per day if this dose is run long term.

Since I last posted - I have noticed my facial hair, neck hair, leg hair arm hair etc has all increased gradually. My body composition is changing to what it was pre - propecia ie lean and muscular. My body temperature has increased, my whole body including my penis is warmer and my skin is more red. Perhaps my DHT/T metablosim has up-regulated, this is very encouraging.

Erections, sperm volume/thickness is improved/ orgasms better.
He also took t3 in cycles
 
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