Something really bad happened! Need help... Anyone, please! I'm on my last rope.
- Thread starter slader1
- Start date
I am not following you on a lot of what you wrote here.
For example, thyroid increasing estrogen? I don't think that's true at all. I have never felt estrogenic on thyroid, in fact I have problems with my estrogen becoming too low on thyroid. I feel decent on thyroid but I end up feeling tired and joints hurting and other low E2 symptoms. I think a more likely, straightfoward explanation is that thyroid upregulates 5-ar, which is shown in a few studies. Some hyperthyroid individuals have huge DHT numbers.
I do see these other few pfs guys with high DHT, which is strange but perhaps their bodies reacted to finasteride by upregulating 5-ar. This explains why taking a small dose of a 5-ar inhibitor helped, bringing their hormones back into balance.
Anyways, I don't understand why you think r-andro SHUTS DOWN 5-ar. What are you basing that on? That runs contrary to all the guys using it on swole source who have felt immediately improved while using it, and improved right when they get off it. There is no response time for them as they "wait for the 5-ar to upregulate". They just come off it feeling better.
Also, if it were true that my 5-ar were now closed, then I should feel as if I have both low DHT and low ALLO. But, I actually feel physically improved but mentally much worse. My anxiety is better, my strength and energy are good, but I have the worst brainfog I have ever experienced. Could it somehow be that my DHT increased but my ALLO decreased?
For example, thyroid increasing estrogen? I don't think that's true at all. I have never felt estrogenic on thyroid, in fact I have problems with my estrogen becoming too low on thyroid. I feel decent on thyroid but I end up feeling tired and joints hurting and other low E2 symptoms. I think a more likely, straightfoward explanation is that thyroid upregulates 5-ar, which is shown in a few studies. Some hyperthyroid individuals have huge DHT numbers.
I do see these other few pfs guys with high DHT, which is strange but perhaps their bodies reacted to finasteride by upregulating 5-ar. This explains why taking a small dose of a 5-ar inhibitor helped, bringing their hormones back into balance.
Anyways, I don't understand why you think r-andro SHUTS DOWN 5-ar. What are you basing that on? That runs contrary to all the guys using it on swole source who have felt immediately improved while using it, and improved right when they get off it. There is no response time for them as they "wait for the 5-ar to upregulate". They just come off it feeling better.
Also, if it were true that my 5-ar were now closed, then I should feel as if I have both low DHT and low ALLO. But, I actually feel physically improved but mentally much worse. My anxiety is better, my strength and energy are good, but I have the worst brainfog I have ever experienced. Could it somehow be that my DHT increased but my ALLO decreased?
Likes:
Trump_1776
Boy did it ever have a neurological affect on me. And I thought my brain dog was horrible before the Andro! This is somehow even worse!
I have zero ability to concentrate, I am not inside my own body (3rd person), I can barely think, constant headaches and dizziness, etc. Christ is this awful!
It's been 3 weeks now since the end of the andro cycle and I maybe feel *a bit* better. How much longer do these things take to re-calibrate? Weeks? Months? Years?
I may have to see a neurologist and get put on something to increase allopregnenlone or something, I really can't take this too much longer. My grandmother offerred to pay for me to see the best neuro specialist at UCLA medical.
I have zero ability to concentrate, I am not inside my own body (3rd person), I can barely think, constant headaches and dizziness, etc. Christ is this awful!
It's been 3 weeks now since the end of the andro cycle and I maybe feel *a bit* better. How much longer do these things take to re-calibrate? Weeks? Months? Years?
I may have to see a neurologist and get put on something to increase allopregnenlone or something, I really can't take this too much longer. My grandmother offerred to pay for me to see the best neuro specialist at UCLA medical.
Likes:
Kjbigman
You could test your DHT increased Allo decreased theory by taking 5a-DHP and seeing what happens. But I personally think you should not take anything for a little while and wait until you feel better mentally. If you don’t feel better or at least see slow improvements in a reasonable amount of time maybe try the 5a-DHP.
Only other thought I have is that I don’t think this is as easy or straight forward as you think with the 5AR. I would take what Helen is saying seriously with the connections he’s making. It’s complicated but I’m open to it because PFS is complicated. I mean think about it you increase DHT get better and worse at the same time. That’s complicated and obviously involves more than simply low vs high 5ar
Only other thought I have is that I don’t think this is as easy or straight forward as you think with the 5AR. I would take what Helen is saying seriously with the connections he’s making. It’s complicated but I’m open to it because PFS is complicated. I mean think about it you increase DHT get better and worse at the same time. That’s complicated and obviously involves more than simply low vs high 5ar
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johnsmith
Of course I am taking Helen seriously, how could I not in my condition? I am dying here.
It is just that sometimes the things he writes are confusing or seem even convoluted. For example when he said thyroid increases estrogen - I have never heard that written anywhere ever before, and I have read a lot about thyroid. That is the first time I have ever heard that it is estrogenic. It would also be great if he could take some care in explaining things to people who don't understand mineral interactions/ biochemistry like he does. I am trying to learn more about this stuff but it is very hard with my brain feeling like its been through a blender. I still don't get his recommendation of potassium earlier in this thread. I tried some potassium caps and they made my muscles feel more relaxed, but didnt do much for my head.
Also I tend to go by Occam's Razer - the simplest, most straightfoward explanation is usually correct. I know that PFS is complex but I haven't seen a better explanation than systemic 5-ar inhibition. This is the approach CDnut's uses and his system has lead to many recoveries. I might spend the next year trying that, if I can pull my mind together.
It is just that sometimes the things he writes are confusing or seem even convoluted. For example when he said thyroid increases estrogen - I have never heard that written anywhere ever before, and I have read a lot about thyroid. That is the first time I have ever heard that it is estrogenic. It would also be great if he could take some care in explaining things to people who don't understand mineral interactions/ biochemistry like he does. I am trying to learn more about this stuff but it is very hard with my brain feeling like its been through a blender. I still don't get his recommendation of potassium earlier in this thread. I tried some potassium caps and they made my muscles feel more relaxed, but didnt do much for my head.
Also I tend to go by Occam's Razer - the simplest, most straightfoward explanation is usually correct. I know that PFS is complex but I haven't seen a better explanation than systemic 5-ar inhibition. This is the approach CDnut's uses and his system has lead to many recoveries. I might spend the next year trying that, if I can pull my mind together.
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dude I don't know. Isn't R-Andro a GABA-agonist? Just a brief search and I see it is related to DHEA? DHEA can inhibit G6PD......which is an enzyme that gets super upregulated while on Fin, therefore I'm guessing can be affected once off fin. DHEA would inhibit NADPH to some extent. But I'm very unfamiliar with its effects. However, your brain fog sounds exactly like what I was experiencing on 1.25mg fin, when I was on zero NADPH. Closest thing to feeling death I have ever experienced, it was terrifying and surreal so I feel you man. You'll pull through it. Just get off whatever is causing it and recalibrate.
What about thyroid increasing estrogen is so hard to understand man?
More thyroid activity = more sugar oxidation.
More sugar oxidation = more CO2 production.
More CO2 production = more need for ventilation.
More need for ventilation = more need for adrenaline.
Adrenaline is fucking expensive to make. It needs things like tyrosine, BH4 (folate + NADPH) and SAMe (methylation + methionine + magnesium).
So instead of making tons of adrenaline the brain just decides to inhibit the enzyme that breaks it down and to also slow down the thyroid to balance things out.
Both things are achieved by raising estrogen.
Estrogen inhibits MAO (which breaks down adrenaline), increases thyroxine-binding globulin (which slows down thyroid) and increases tyrosinase (which oxidises tyrosine so less of it is available for thyroid production and this makes your skin darker).
More thyroid activity = more sugar oxidation.
More sugar oxidation = more CO2 production.
More CO2 production = more need for ventilation.
More need for ventilation = more need for adrenaline.
Adrenaline is fucking expensive to make. It needs things like tyrosine, BH4 (folate + NADPH) and SAMe (methylation + methionine + magnesium).
So instead of making tons of adrenaline the brain just decides to inhibit the enzyme that breaks it down and to also slow down the thyroid to balance things out.
Both things are achieved by raising estrogen.
Estrogen inhibits MAO (which breaks down adrenaline), increases thyroxine-binding globulin (which slows down thyroid) and increases tyrosinase (which oxidises tyrosine so less of it is available for thyroid production and this makes your skin darker).
Likes:
Helen and Kjbigman
@slader1 Excess Thyroid Increases Estrogen?
I hope you understand that some people get gyno from T3)) The Effects of Hyperthyroidism on Testosterone Levels
I have no idea what you are reading))
thyroid increases Superoxide PRODUCTION.. body needs SODs to provide protection, of course it will raise estrogen with thyroid to provide copper for the SODs.
If you are low on copper then running thyroid will feel like arthritis.
I hope you understand that some people get gyno from T3)) The Effects of Hyperthyroidism on Testosterone Levels
I have no idea what you are reading))
thyroid increases Superoxide PRODUCTION.. body needs SODs to provide protection, of course it will raise estrogen with thyroid to provide copper for the SODs.
If you are low on copper then running thyroid will feel like arthritis.
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@slader1 This is why hyperthyrodism is even more stressful than hypothyrodism
hyperthyrodism will lift up all your stress systems. like cortisol andrenalin, etc.
this is why the older people get the slower their metabolism gets, and if they lift it , they simply live SHORTER))
it is a balance between oxidation and antioxidation, if the body can't provide proper anitoxidation, the metabolism goes lower lower lower lower.
If estrogen is high because of sluggish liver, it will slow down metabolism. This is not the same as being in fast metabolism and having high estrogen.
High estrogen is needed in fast metabolism, and is not needed in slow metabolism.
Think of estrogen as copper provider. when you need copper it goes up ( taking thyroid) , when you dont need copper it goes down.
Sometimes it gets stuck because of fucked up liver and provides you copper in slow metabolism basiclly making you copper toxic.
hyperthyrodism will lift up all your stress systems. like cortisol andrenalin, etc.
this is why the older people get the slower their metabolism gets, and if they lift it , they simply live SHORTER))
it is a balance between oxidation and antioxidation, if the body can't provide proper anitoxidation, the metabolism goes lower lower lower lower.
If estrogen is high because of sluggish liver, it will slow down metabolism. This is not the same as being in fast metabolism and having high estrogen.
High estrogen is needed in fast metabolism, and is not needed in slow metabolism.
Think of estrogen as copper provider. when you need copper it goes up ( taking thyroid) , when you dont need copper it goes down.
Sometimes it gets stuck because of fucked up liver and provides you copper in slow metabolism basiclly making you copper toxic.
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Likes:
Bankai900
so like when ur old u can't get SODS? Cuz if thyroid provides SODS then u get ur antioxidants. I need some extra SODS I think. I feel like I'm oxidizing like crazy over here.
OH yea I have zero copper. Cuz Ceruloplasmin is super low and no urinary copper excretion. so pretty much I have decent thyroid...but no SODS, which means I'm basically screwed. And LOW NADPH means like probably zero protection. Probably on my death bed tbh.
OH yea I have zero copper. Cuz Ceruloplasmin is super low and no urinary copper excretion. so pretty much I have decent thyroid...but no SODS, which means I'm basically screwed. And LOW NADPH means like probably zero protection. Probably on my death bed tbh.
