Something really bad happened! Need help... Anyone, please! I'm on my last rope.

Oct 4, 2017
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Europe
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#41
I find this so strange because I actually have less anxiety than before the cycle.

It is my brain that is the problem! It's this real strange emptiness, numbness that I can't see through. I think its something like dissociation or derealization? It also feels sort of like my brain has been split in two parts, and both sides wont cooperate with one another.
Yes you are right!
Anxiety is a sympathetic reaction of wanting to escape a danger. What you experience now is stronger because it is when the metabolism is too pushed and the anxiety cannot go higher so there is a change, to not "fry" the system with heat. So they call this freeze very often. Yes it is also felt as dissociation, or a split.

Just know that this is a protective decision of your body. It will change when the body decides it is safe to do so.

I am very gradually stabilizing each day, but oh so slowly.
THIS! This is what you need to notice and focus on!

I am also glad you ordered the hair test and that you have a familly that loves you and care. And yes, your sibblings are sensitive to your fight, and they are sure afraid for you. Take care of you and not of them though, trust that they can, so "use" them as a motivation without being anxious for them. Of course we impact others but each of us has to take care of ones own nervous system (what people call the mind, or mental, but it is far from being only in the head).

I can suggest that you try to find in your body whatever place feels less bad, even if only your nails or hair! We automatically focus on what feels bad, but it is good to notice that we have also better places in the shadows of our pain. Hols the 2 together or alternatively and without forcing to do so. Even one second focusing on the soft feeling of a fabric on your skin from time to time will help. Not only children need a teddy bear sometimes. Our body keeps those needs.

Also try to use your 5 senses to connect around you. Look at what feels beautiful. If lookig around and far is too stimulating, just look at something very near, I use the wood of the table to unfocus from the computer for example. Smell what you like. Notice the birds... Don't force to maintain the focus but come back to it.

Then with sight, a good tip is to use fractals. These forms are puting us in contact with infinity because we can imagine them expanding. Expansion is when we feel good. Contraction is feeling bad. You can use plants or drawings. I prefer the natural forms of nature than the computer ones... If whatever you do make you feel you loose yourself into the dissociation, you have a choice. You can ground and feel where your body touches the floor, bed, chair (I forgot this sense in the 5 senses), and use your sight or connection to somebody, to come back. But you can also "visit" dissociation and let yourself float in it for some time before "landing". You need some trust in order to surrender to the deep wisdom of your body. Dissociation is a rest and an anesthesia feeling! And resting paradoxically gets you out of dissociation. It is very possible that you enconter anxiety again when you come out of dissociation... I just tell you so that you can remember to view it as a GOOD sign...
 
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slader1

Well-Known Member
Nov 17, 2019
49
7
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#42
Slader, 99% of PFS people do better on low carb, keto, fasting or carb backloading. It is not about just lowering or raising cortisol only, it is about cortisol sensitivity and NADPH. In a PFS state, your metabolism is fucked you cannot handle sugar properly as the body is supposed to and also many PFS people mimic symptoms of insulin resistance as well.

You handled sugar fine when you were on thyroid/DHEA etc because it was a banaid and the thyroid brought your metabolism up so you can handle sugar but that is not your body's natural reaction.

Well I seem to handle sugar okay, in fact when I am feeling my blood sugar get low and I go have some juice it usually makes me feel better. And I also never took that much thyroid, I would usually only take 1 drop of tyromix in the evening and sometimes t3 when I woke up. When I took dhea it was only a small amount, like a few mg. My resting pulse without thyroid was about 75, if I was eating well. With thyroid it would get me >80 (which was the target)

Where can I read about sugar affecting cortisol sensitivity and NADPH? Is there a thread on here? If I'm going to do something completely different from what I have been doing for years, I would like to at least see some studies first. I do see a lot of guys saying ti helped them, which is good.

But man ever since that androhard cycle my head has felt totally messed up! Physically I feel I improved a bit. I am a little stronger, and my penis sensitivity is maybe a bit better. It's just my head is driving me nuts! I can't see clearly, can't concentrate, can't feel any emotions at all. My forehead feels numb, and pressure under my eyes, and my left eye sometimes feels like its not really working. Before I had some headaches and brainfog but it wasn't like this.

If this was a matter of low estrogen then drinking some soymilk or eating some pufa should solve it, right? Well I tried that a couple nights ago and it made me feel more numb (which is good for headaches) and I went to bed cold and depressed, waking up a few times during the night.

My brain fog was awful just like yours. Carnivore diet helped me a LOT. GHB also helped get me to a better place. Glycine also makes me feel better sometimes.

GHB = Gaba A and Gaba B stimulation, increases neurosteroids and allopreg by a lot.
Glycine = Increases 5ar at certain concentrations.
Did you try a high carb diet before going carnivore MCurtone?
 

MCurtone

Well-Known Member
Apr 7, 2019
159
144
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Canada
#43
Well I seem to handle sugar okay, in fact when I am feeling my blood sugar get low and I go have some juice it usually makes me feel better. And I also never took that much thyroid, I would usually only take 1 drop of tyromix in the evening and sometimes t3 when I woke up. When I took dhea it was only a small amount, like a few mg. My resting pulse without thyroid was about 75, if I was eating well. With thyroid it would get me >80 (which was the target)

Where can I read about sugar affecting cortisol sensitivity and NADPH? Is there a thread on here? If I'm going to do something completely different from what I have been doing for years, I would like to at least see some studies first. I do see a lot of guys saying ti helped them, which is good.

But man ever since that androhard cycle my head has felt totally messed up! Physically I feel I improved a bit. I am a little stronger, and my penis sensitivity is maybe a bit better. It's just my head is driving me nuts! I can't see clearly, can't concentrate, can't feel any emotions at all. My forehead feels numb, and pressure under my eyes, and my left eye sometimes feels like its not really working. Before I had some headaches and brainfog but it wasn't like this.

If this was a matter of low estrogen then drinking some soymilk or eating some pufa should solve it, right? Well I tried that a couple nights ago and it made me feel more numb (which is good for headaches) and I went to bed cold and depressed, waking up a few times during the night.



Did you try a high carb diet before going carnivore MCurtone?
I was high-carb my whole life before and during PFS. Only improved when I went raw carnivore. I can live life right now. My brain functions well enough, I have a little emotion, sex drive is decent and I can basically live life, but I am still not cured. I get brain fog time to time, major food sensitivities and not as great emotions as I used to have, but I can get by. Some days I feel cured. Its a journey but I highly recommend increasing your protein intake and going zero or low carb. High calorie with high protein will benefit your metabolism a lot.
 

bruschi11

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2017
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Boston, MA
#44
Slader, 99% of PFS people do better on low carb, keto, fasting or carb backloading. It is not about just lowering or raising cortisol only, it is about cortisol sensitivity and NADPH. In a PFS state, your metabolism is fucked you cannot handle sugar properly as the body is supposed to and also many PFS people mimic symptoms of insulin resistance as well.

You handled sugar fine when you were on thyroid/DHEA etc because it was a banaid and the thyroid brought your metabolism up so you can handle sugar but that is not your body's natural reaction.
Agreed. Sugar has its place in healing for some. Never too much, but I’ve been through so many body chemistries and there are some that it helps.

I’ve had body chemistries where fasting amazing. 24-36 hour fasts would leave me in absolute bliss and after I’d come back stronger. Other body chems where they would destroy me for 3-4 days.

You have to understand that we are all different. And you’ll be different at times. What made you go in 2016 might make you stop in 2019. And vice versa.

Ive read mag/calcium ratio good indicator for use of sugar. When mag to calcium is elevated, you do better w/ sugar- not sure of the reason. Calcium shells (extreme calcium elevations in hair test) sugar a no no and hence fasting incredible.

I’ve had all sorts of experiences with cortisol and can really feel mine and can tell you what’s going on with it. The best I feel is when my cortisol is strong and sensitive. Not too high, but high enough. But strong- it’s crazy your body is just incredible at handling stress w/ strong cortisol. And the body gets so much more capable of building itself up, the digestive system strong. And so on.
 

RebelWithACause

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Jan 20, 2018
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#45
I can eat carbs but in the beginning no way. That's why I did carnivore and other diets back then.

On workout days I eat 40% carbos OR so and on day after 20-30% and day after that if not lifting 10-20%. Mostly from basmati/wild rice. I also drink carrot juice on the workout days preworkout. For the rest protein like raw eggs, cooked red meat, cooked chicken, a lot of cooked vegetables and some cashews and chickpeas.

Overall my calories are not high. Feel better keeping it light not stuffing myself.
 

Walker

Well-Known Member
Oct 7, 2017
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#47
I can eat carbs but in the beginning no way. That's why I did carnivore and other diets back then.

On workout days I eat 40% carbos OR so and on day after 20-30% and day after that if not lifting 10-20%. Mostly from basmati/wild rice. I also drink carrot juice on the workout days preworkout. For the rest protein like raw eggs, cooked red meat, cooked chicken, a lot of cooked vegetables and some cashews and chickpeas.

Overall my calories are not high. Feel better keeping it light not stuffing myself.
I eat a very similar diet while doing TEI. Mainly cooked meats and vegetables, rice, blue corn chips, hummus, and the occasional potato dish. Usually any carbs besides the vegetables I eat after working out in the afternoon timeframe.
 

Boris

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Staff member
Oct 3, 2017
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#49
What symptoms would indicate that one isn't handling carbs well?
In general poor insulin sensitivity. But things like brain fog, water retention, bloat, flat muscles, extreme tiredness or lethargy after eating them.

Just skip eating carbs for one meal and see how you feel. Just eat like an omelette or something.
 
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5 alpha

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2017
375
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#50
I can handle carbs best if I eat them after I workout or I'm fasting for a long period of the day and then have them. Those are the only times I can handle carbs much better in a PFS state, but its still not normal.
I know exactly what you mean. These brief periods of handling carbs better will make me think well I guess I’m gtg now with eating them. I’ll keep eating them and respond bad to them.

I can also say for certain that I don’t handle sugar properly
 
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5 alpha

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2017
375
171
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#51
I eat a very similar diet while doing TEI. Mainly cooked meats and vegetables, rice, blue corn chips, hummus, and the occasional potato dish. Usually any carbs besides the vegetables I eat after working out in the afternoon timeframe.
Thank god for the rice. It seems PFS guys do not get a bad reaction to rice. At least I don’t. It’s the only grain I can eat that does not make me feel like shit and mess up my digestion.
 

bruschi11

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Oct 3, 2017
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#52
Thank god for the rice. It seems PFS guys do not get a bad reaction to rice. At least I don’t. It’s the only grain I can eat that does not make me feel like shit and mess up my digestion.
Oats? Man oatmeal in the morning is just a saint for me. Japanese sweet potatoes later in the day too. I do good with rice. I do well with these good carbs, but struggle when I get too greedy. Some corn chips are ok, but not too much, same w/ rice cakes.
 
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slader1

Well-Known Member
Nov 17, 2019
49
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8
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#53
In general poor insulin sensitivity. But things like brain fog, water retention, bloat, flat muscles, extreme tiredness or lethargy after eating them.

Just skip eating carbs for one meal and see how you feel. Just eat like an omelette or something.
I tried that yesterday and felt more tired for a while. It didn't seem to do anything for my incredibly bad brain fog though.

Thank god for the rice. It seems PFS guys do not get a bad reaction to rice. At least I don’t. It’s the only grain I can eat that does not make me feel like shit and mess up my digestion.
That's strange because rice is supposedly a 5ar inhibitor, especially brown rice.

I eat a very similar diet while doing TEI. Mainly cooked meats and vegetables, rice, blue corn chips, hummus, and the occasional potato dish. Usually any carbs besides the vegetables I eat after working out in the afternoon timeframe.
The vegetable don't bother your stomach?

Agreed. Sugar has its place in healing for some. Never too much, but I’ve been through so many body chemistries and there are some that it helps.

I’ve had body chemistries where fasting amazing. 24-36 hour fasts would leave me in absolute bliss and after I’d come back stronger. Other body chems where they would destroy me for 3-4 days.

You have to understand that we are all different. And you’ll be different at times. What made you go in 2016 might make you stop in 2019. And vice versa.

Ive read mag/calcium ratio good indicator for use of sugar. When mag to calcium is elevated, you do better w/ sugar- not sure of the reason. Calcium shells (extreme calcium elevations in hair test) sugar a no no and hence fasting incredible.

I’ve had all sorts of experiences with cortisol and can really feel mine and can tell you what’s going on with it. The best I feel is when my cortisol is strong and sensitive. Not too high, but high enough. But strong- it’s crazy your body is just incredible at handling stress w/ strong cortisol. And the body gets so much more capable of building itself up, the digestive system strong. And so on.
Well if sugar has been something holding me back then it's worth trying a period of low-carb or water fast.

My neuro symptoms are still incredibly bad, I don't understand how anyone could feel as bad I do.
 

slader1

Well-Known Member
Nov 17, 2019
49
7
8
27
#57
I was high-carb my whole life before and during PFS. Only improved when I went raw carnivore. I can live life right now. My brain functions well enough, I have a little emotion, sex drive is decent and I can basically live life, but I am still not cured. I get brain fog time to time, major food sensitivities and not as great emotions as I used to have, but I can get by. Some days I feel cured. Its a journey but I highly recommend increasing your protein intake and going zero or low carb. High calorie with high protein will benefit your metabolism a lot.
Can you provide a detailed explanation or guide of your diet? Maybe a sample of a day of eating? I am curious what eating nothing but raw meat looks like. Do you get all your meat from the grocery store?

Also are you worried about consuming high levels of tryptophan? (which is primarily found in muscle meat and some say is inflammatory)
 

slader1

Well-Known Member
Nov 17, 2019
49
7
8
27
#58
Keep fighting bro. Diet, exercise, vitamins and minerals can help you alot.
I'm very confused on which direction I should be taking all of those things. I orderred a TEI test so that should help me with the direction of my vitamins and minerals.

I went out and got some potassium caps, but @Helen hasn't replied with the dosage and I cant find the recommendations for potassium dosages on the site. I took two caps of potassium gluconate and felt a little better (more relaxed) but still awful as ever.

This brain fog is insane! Dont think Ive ever had it like this even at the beggining of my pfs 8 years ago. This is just like Ive skipped to another dimension bad.

Oats? Man oatmeal in the morning is just a saint for me. Japanese sweet potatoes later in the day too. I do good with rice. I do well with these good carbs, but struggle when I get too greedy. Some corn chips are ok, but not too much, same w/ rice cakes.
Is there somehting about the japanese variety that makes them more tolerable you think? Have you ever gone low carb? Isn't going low carb supposed to help kill off bacteria or candida or something? I figure you would be into that.

I can eat carbs but in the beginning no way. That's why I did carnivore and other diets back then.

On workout days I eat 40% carbos OR so and on day after 20-30% and day after that if not lifting 10-20%. Mostly from basmati/wild rice. I also drink carrot juice on the workout days preworkout. For the rest protein like raw eggs, cooked red meat, cooked chicken, a lot of cooked vegetables and some cashews and chickpeas.

Overall my calories are not high. Feel better keeping it light not stuffing myself.
You eat raw eggs? Also cashews and chickpeas? Arent these things big no-nos for gut health? Or is this all as per your TEI recommendations?

Yes you are right!
Anxiety is a sympathetic reaction of wanting to escape a danger. What you experience now is stronger because it is when the metabolism is too pushed and the anxiety cannot go higher so there is a change, to not "fry" the system with heat. So they call this freeze very often. Yes it is also felt as dissociation, or a split.

Just know that this is a protective decision of your body. It will change when the body decides it is safe to do so.


THIS! This is what you need to notice and focus on!

I am also glad you ordered the hair test and that you have a familly that loves you and care. And yes, your sibblings are sensitive to your fight, and they are sure afraid for you. Take care of you and not of them though, trust that they can, so "use" them as a motivation without being anxious for them. Of course we impact others but each of us has to take care of ones own nervous system (what people call the mind, or mental, but it is far from being only in the head).

I can suggest that you try to find in your body whatever place feels less bad, even if only your nails or hair! We automatically focus on what feels bad, but it is good to notice that we have also better places in the shadows of our pain. Hols the 2 together or alternatively and without forcing to do so. Even one second focusing on the soft feeling of a fabric on your skin from time to time will help. Not only children need a teddy bear sometimes. Our body keeps those needs.

Also try to use your 5 senses to connect around you. Look at what feels beautiful. If lookig around and far is too stimulating, just look at something very near, I use the wood of the table to unfocus from the computer for example. Smell what you like. Notice the birds... Don't force to maintain the focus but come back to it.

Then with sight, a good tip is to use fractals. These forms are puting us in contact with infinity because we can imagine them expanding. Expansion is when we feel good. Contraction is feeling bad. You can use plants or drawings. I prefer the natural forms of nature than the computer ones... If whatever you do make you feel you loose yourself into the dissociation, you have a choice. You can ground and feel where your body touches the floor, bed, chair (I forgot this sense in the 5 senses), and use your sight or connection to somebody, to come back. But you can also "visit" dissociation and let yourself float in it for some time before "landing". You need some trust in order to surrender to the deep wisdom of your body. Dissociation is a rest and an anesthesia feeling! And resting paradoxically gets you out of dissociation. It is very possible that you enconter anxiety again when you come out of dissociation... I just tell you so that you can remember to view it as a GOOD sign...
Thanks for the thoughtful advice, that is very kind of you. Unfortunately I feel so brain fogged that I am having trouble visualizing or implementing anything you've talked about, but I hope to try it out in the near future, assuming things turn around for the better.
 

5 alpha

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2017
375
171
43
#59
Slader,

I have never got worse from any mild 5ar inhibitor. But I’m also Saw P-PFS. Saw P may have different mechanism behind why it can cause PFS. What suggests this is that I took Avodart (which is a more powerful prescription 5ar inhibitor than Fin) and did not get PFS. So fact that a mild 5ar inhibitor not making me worse may not apply to you.
 

slader1

Well-Known Member
Nov 17, 2019
49
7
8
27
#60
Slader,

I have never got worse from any mild 5ar inhibitor. But I’m also Saw P-PFS. Saw P may have different mechanism behind why it can cause PFS. What suggests this is that I took Avodart (which is a more powerful prescription 5ar inhibitor than Fin) and did not get PFS. So fact that a mild 5ar inhibitor not making me worse may not apply to you.
Have you had bloodwork? Do you have low or high DHT? I suspect Saw palmetto damage is not quite as severe as finasteride damage to the 5-ar system. That is why I am so sensitive to anything that increases or decreases 5-ar. Rice has been known to make me go crazy, and I know at least one other pfs guy who is the same.
 
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