Shuddering’s Log: Healing from Post-DMSA syndrome (chronic low copper):

Shuddering

Well-Known Member
Dec 11, 2019
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#41
Ok, as @Bankai900 and others have said in other threads, it is best for a person to just choose a protocol and start it and stick to it for months. To just do it, and get somewhere. So that's what I'll be doing now. With c diff seemingly inactive for now, I can give myself a break from health research, and just take a few things for the protocol to fix me, and thus have more time freed up for now for other stuff in life. Although this new type of pain and tiredness from this week (I suspect from a virus) is still a real handicap.

I decided on a protocol that I think will fix me, and is like TEI's recs for me but safer and faster. Here it is:

Rules:
• Take IP-6 & Inositol, and Succinic acid, every day several hundred mg each.
• Through diet and supplements, take all of Potassium Sodium Magnesium Zinc Boron trace minerals (ocean, sardines), and sometimes eat high Mo Mn P Co foods.
• Avoid sulfur calcium copper iron, and kind of avoid Mo and Mn and P (Phosphorus) and Co (b12) but only sometimes (taking 20 mg Mn for TEI was bad idea, have to undo that).


And that's it. The purpose of this protocol is to take in large-ish amounts of these compounds that (I think) chelate calcium from the cells (tissue calcium isn't the target, only intracellular calcium is the problem for me), and take in the minerals I'm afraid of being depleted of my chelation so I stay in balance. I will need many grams of the chelators because there is so much calcium to remove.



This is in keeping with TEI's general direction for me, which I agree with, I think we both see the problem here is excess calcium (just look at my Ca ratios in both hairtests, it's so high, and I know I took in too much from diet during this while my symptoms got worse- it's the main problem for me)- I'll keep with the dietary recommendations, and be emphasizing the same minerals they want me to take just I'll only have them in physiological doses. And I'll be taking lots of these substances that chelate calcium. As far as I can tell, this is basically the same as TEI for me right now, only safer, and faster.

I'll be accepting that, just like with TEI for everyone , this might make me feel worse or like garbage or or exhausted for a while, even for multiple days or weeks. But every day I'll reread the protocol rules and just stick to them, and keep chelating even if my breathing rate goes down again, and my hands become cold again, and my energy goes away. And I will just force these chelator doses through for a couple of weeks and ignore my feeling worse from the displacing of minerals from enzymes in the short term, and then within like 2 weeks it should have removed the month's worth (1-2g per day, not all absorbed or put in cells) of calcium in my cells, and allow my adrenals and estrogen to go up again.And some days further of replenishing my minerals and I'll be healed.

I suspect that most of the results of TEI come from just a few of the compounds in their supplements. The ones that chelate the most of the minerals they want to remove. The rest just help a little but rly aren't needed or can be harmful. So I think since this is basically the same thing, I can use more effective chelators that don't give me scary side effects like the b vits do (that I don't think are from detox, but are just because taking so much thiamine and pyridoxine and Ascorbic acid powders and synthetic minerals is not good for my body- causing neuropathy weird pains etc that chelators don't cause me), and get the same result.

I think this all make sense, and my reasoning is sound, and that this will fix me pretty quickly. But does anyone see a flaw in my reasoning? @Helen Am I missing anything, do you know of a reason why this wouldn't work? Are there any serious dangers I'm not considering (like depleting copper and destroying blood vessels with fast chelation)? Remember that all my mercury is gone, so that's not an issue here. I'm goign to start it now, but if there's a major flaw in this and I'm putting myself in serious danger it would be good for me to be told early on.

Note- this is just plain succinic acid I'll be using, not DMSA (my eyes currently are yellowish on the sides, and have dark circles under them, from my infections and from TEI supps both damaging my liver, I don't think my liver can handle DMSA right now, DMSA definitely causes liver damage for a lot of people including me).



Daily update: Today I just took a gram of IP-6 and a few hundred-several hundred mg of (plain) inositol. As said before, I'm not using vit C anymore. It's weird and I don't trust its safety in the amounts TEI wants for me. I continue to be sick and coughing a lot, lots of mucus, but then everyone around me is also sick, too. Walking speed energy etc are still good (walking faster than 90-95% of people when I'm feeling good and rested and fed and not in pain, even though I'm still chronically ill, lol. Just from eating clean and removing all the mercury), except for the drain on my energy that this new thing (virus I think) is imposing on me.
I ate a lot of starches (low mineral ones, to help this process), almonds, salt, green beans, a little sunflower protein powder, some beef but my body might not want animal protein anymore it kind of rejected it, butter. I tried a little bit of dark chocolate as a test and my body didn't seem to want that either.

I did test a little cilantro today, and I felt fine. Displaced a few remaining toxic metals, but really not much. If I took this amount several months ago, I'd have crashed for months. And took some potassium, and boron. I didn't take anything else today, just food, in keeping with my general pattern (only taking a chelator substance or two, and electrolytes or a bit of some mineral I need, and nothing else. When people say I'm taking "all this stuff", I really don't know what they're referring to. I'm not like some guy on the Ray Peat forum taking a dozen vitamins and hormones).

Wow, my hands and body are really warm right now, were feeling colder earlier today but I was in pain from virus then. My breathing rate is still way up from 2 weeks ago. Many improvements still are remaining (I think genuinely, but there's a chance they're just from IP-6 (engages in krebs cycle) artificially increasing metabolism? I hope not, but I don't think so. I think these are real lasting improvements). Estrogen is still 0 though, although when I briefly sprinted today I got a little bit of scalp itch from it. Like my body is just waiting for me to remove the calcium and then it will instant;y raise estrogen and adrenals again.
 
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Shuddering

Well-Known Member
Dec 11, 2019
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#42
I currently have two areas of major pain in my body. The on on my left side (kidney? Spleen? Even stomach?) and one in the middle of my spine. They are both much worse today. It hurts to walk. It hurts to lie down. It hurts to cough (which I'm doing constantly because I'm sick). Are these cancers? Remember, my immunity is completely suppressed in some ways because of 0 ceruloplasmin. So anything could happen to me. The funny thing is, my body is functioning better in many ways than it ever did before the last several months in my entire life. But that doesn't matter much when my transport of multiple minerals (copper, Iron, see my hairtest) is shut off.

I also had some pain in my head last night. Is this meningitis or something?

I have continued to use IP-6 (1g) and inositol daily. They actually do not appear to have removed any abilities of my body or crashed me from chelation or anything. But I haven't had any signs of improvement yet either (I think it will be sudden, when calcium goes below a certain point, and not gradual) and am thinking of trying vitamin C again, but in larger doses, to fight this virus (see Keller's work, and other doctors, from the mid-20th century), and perhaps the claim that it chelates calcium from the cells (from acu-cell) is true and this will cure me faster. I am going to take more K, Na, Mg today to replenish. I am also going to to use more of the other chelators each day, and just make a final effort to cure myself rapidly of calcium toxicity so my immune system can work again and save me from these pathogens.

Is there anything else I can do? I may not have much time, this viral infection feels very serious and getting worse.

Anyone?


Edit:
I should clarify that these two pains (and the briefer, random ones throughout my body) are only from the last week. They didn't exist before. They only appeared when my breahting rate and energy started to increase again, and as this happened my urine bcame very acidic and my bacterial infections seem to have shut off (so the intense cross-body pain from the c diff has not appeared for over a week now, which was a major releif). It could have been gettign enough zinc and potassiunm in my diet that caused this major chemical change in my body, or maybe it was chelation. Probably chelation. But my metabolic rate seems to have increased, and my pH made more acidic, so now viral infections have the conditions to grow, while bacterial infections are more inhibited, which is the reverse of the whole period of early November to early January. These 2 new pains feel different from any I have ever had before. They are chronic, and localized to one place each. Any sort of pressure being put on the area will cause them to hurt. Like there's a tumor or swelling there or something, rather than just acute damage from exposure to a toxin.

My urine today and yesterday seems to be less acidic now. But my breathing remains very good and quick. Bowel movement frequency seems good, energy production seems good. Just that a bunch of enzymes I need for immunity are still shut off. Estrogen remains at 0 from my symptoms.

I will continue with my protocol, and endure whatever happens as I would with TEI, and maybe add vitamin C in larger amounts for this virus, and hopefully it will chelate calcium as well.
 
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Oct 27, 2017
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#43
What is your ceruloplasmin value ? You say it feels like 0, but this if value is quiet rare.
How do you approach the toxicities you say you have, do you measure elements in blood or urine or just hair to see if body is getting rid of them during chelation or you just feel better after a chelation in general ?
 
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Shuddering

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Dec 11, 2019
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#44
This is another long, rambling-type post again. That is because it is me just putting my thoughts directly to text and wanting to preserve them as they wrre when I generated them. This type of note-taking is helpful for me because it leaves a detailed record of what happened that day, and becuase I can use it as fuel for thought, and to help me figure out the questions I have.

End of the day Jan 21 update:
The the last 2 or 3 days I have been on vitamin C again. I am using it in large doses now, the largest ever (5-10 G per day - Quali-C brand low in heavy metals), to deal with this threatening virus that has inflamed my body including my brain. The pain in my brain/head has not been the center of the pain in my body, but it has been enough to be of real concern. The vit C has possibly made my pain in left side (kidney?) and spine better. They were really terrible yesterday morning but are not quite as bad right now.

Today after all this I do feel dumber, my memory and thought worse. Multiple times today, beginning in the morning, and continuing and and off to now, several times today and being very noticeable right now at night just before bed, I have felt very noticeable neuropathy, especially in my hands and even in my feet as well. I now feel brain fogged as well, I have all day and it has been very noticeable and annoying, and a noticeable difference from 2 days ago and perhaps even from yesterday.
I have possibly had an increase in scalp itch sensitivity, but not much in the itching of the scalp itself. Could this be the vit C actually working and effectively? So calcium is lowered to nontoxic now, but it also lowered my copper, or potassium, or magnesium, so now I have an actual true copper deficiency already? Or a much more extreme functional copper deficiency even if I still have a lot in my liver and maybe my brain? So this is why I feel neuropathy in hands again? And neuropathy in feet is iron deficiency supposedly. I last felt both hand and foot neuropathies like this in Late September, after DMSA made me anemic, and eating liver and taking copper and iron pills (far too much of each) cured it with the anemia.

I got a few rashes this evening as well, and a couple of small eczema-like sores.. I get random pain of an interesting type (a unique pain sensation, not intense, but not good) in places like my arms and calves as well, at random, and sometimes on my torso or parts of my face. This all with the hand neuropathy is rolling throughout my body right now on and off.

Is this all from a body chemistry change making some viruses go wild? These new sensations don’t feel like the virus I think I’ve been dealing with for the past week. Or some bacteria being activated, or a bacterial or viral dieoff? This actually feels a lot like a dieoff- the sensations feel very similar, except this is a very continuous thing now tonight, and on and off for all of today. I have sometimes today felt a more persistent scalp tingling in some individual hair follicles, that feels more like the type that estrogen causes (it’s more substantial, longer lasting than other types- I’m feeling it right now in a few hairs along with a couple tiny stinging pains across my body, neuropathy in my hands, ringing in ears, brief flash of pain in my forehead, a bro persistent pain in the bottom right anterior part of my abdomen. A sudden stronger zapping pain in a finger. I’m guessing this is not a virus for the most part, but a mineral deficiency, induced by all this Vit C in the last few days.). But maybe I’m wrong and this i a virus just destroying my body.


Perhaps the 15-25 G of vit C I have taken the past 3 days really have done it.
Well the timing matches up perfectly, and taking that amount of vit C is bound to have a substantial impact (remember this is the amount TEI wanted me on for a total week, this isn’t my just taking stuff at random).
I haven’t taken IP-6 during this time except the afternoon of the first day before I started vit C again that evening, since they can interfere with each other.
I think these weird changes today are from the vit C alone. The timing just matches up. And this new stuff is probably mostly from mineral depletion and not from one of the active infections.

So with slight increase in scalp sensitivity, and in getting rashes and even small sores again, and neuropathy in hands (and feet less often), from 2 dozen grams of Vit C, maybe my estrogen sensitivity really is restored, maybe my calcium really is lowered enough now, and to restore it fully I just need to replenish see mineral slick copper that are now depleted form 24 G vit C lol, that's huge. Like compare to the chelator doses Ive taken before, in recent months, usually they are just a couple grams in a given short period of time, like in a week or two and then not doing chelation for a couple weeks after that. This si ever grams IP-6 in firs half of this week, and now 20-25 grams vit C in less than 3 days. I very possibly have depleted myself of all my copper lol, and much calcium hopefully.

I think the continuous neuropathy and zapping sudden pain right now that is going on endlessly now tonight is from vit C depleting minerals, at least from cells. so I will actually try chocolate even though I said I wouldn't have copper foods since the 20-25 G vit C and several grams IP-6 very possibly has depleted me of all copper, it is just such a large amount of chelating molecules. Hopefully taking in these specific minerals tonight will fix this neuropathy and pain and improve my memory and focus again, and

Wow I’m really feeling the estrogen style persistent scalp tingling in a couple hair follicles right now. But my body has tons of zapping all around it. It continues on and on. And sudden pain in my fingers, in my back, etc. It just appears and then is gone. Wow. Something has really changed from the vit C the last 2-3 days. Is this just a transient physical effect of the vit C? IS this infections going wild from mineral chelation weakening my immune system even more for now?

Other changes, more positive ones, my hands stayed warm for so much of the day, I have lots of walking energy and speed though my adrenaline still hasn’t been restored, I actually was able to sweat quite easily today (though I was wearing multiple layers and doing a lot of hard walking for miles today and even some brief sprinting). I had lots of physical stamina and hormone production, good social presence and good voice (I was expecting taking so much chelation this week to make my voice worse and this other stuff worse, but no).

I will eat a bar of chocolate, as a small low-risk test for copper. I will not have any more, and stick to my dictum to avoid copper until he very end, the very last stage. I will stop the vit C for now, in case I am dangerously depleting myself already and in case I am already out of calcium toxicity anyway, eat some butter to test my hormone sensitivity, take potassium, sodium, magnesium, eat zinc and selenium and molybdenum foods (moly is probably fine, my body doesn’t seem to want many peas, selenium and maybe zinc probably fine too, actually). Maybe it is just taking potassium and magnesium and then finally copper, at this point, to normalize everything, if these huge vit C and IP-6 doses really have lowered my calcium below toxicity and thus fixed me, but also int he process depleted my actual copper levels to zero?

The hand neuropathy and the poorer memory and cognition do feel like they could be from a true copper deficiency being induced by the vit C, and they do line up timing-wise with my taking it, but they could also be from the virus(es).

This is a case of feeling bad just like TEI is supposed to. It is necessary. I’ll get out of it.


So in the last week I’ve taken at least several grams of IP-6, a couple grams of inositol, and perhaps a couple dozen grams of vit C. That’s probably a lot of chelation. This is the amount of vit C that TEI would have me take in just over a week, though. My body frame is smaller than average, so I think the effects of a given dose of chelators are more potent (hence, 2g DMSA fucking me over the first time I took it).

So taking this much chelation, a potentially very massive amount for me, must have done some thing. Some things. It very possibly cured my calcium toxicity by now, or is close to it, and very possibly make me truly deficit in copper yet again.

What are the next steps I should take, to try to figure out where I’m at now? Get another hair test asap? But would that really tell us anything? Like I’d expect copper on it to be very near 0 but the could be either true deficiency or just ceruloplasmin being so strongly suppressed- won’t tell me true body levels. take certain minerals in a certain order cautiously to see if it restores ceruloplasmin? I think potassium will be up a lot, and maybe even sodium (but copper and iron very low). I don’t think I’m near 4 lows anymore. I feel like there’s a big dysfunction in my body relating to copper still, but besides that I’m nowhere near burnout- most of the rest of everything seems to function quite well. That’s not what a 4 lows feels like, is it?

The above makes me think that you could predict much of the results of a hairtest just from specific symptoms and the details of how someone feels.

If this is a real copper deficiency chelating further might destroy my blood vessels or heart for all I know, could make me far worse if it is already causing constant neuropathy in hands, so I’m going to stop vit C and chelation for now, after the largest doses of it I’ve ever taken.

My energy is still really good rn and my hands are rly warm so much of the time, cortisol production is good, androgens (one of them at least) good, estrogen still basically 0 though, scalp itch memory etc still very low. Breathing rate might be even higher now than earlier this week, than it has been in weeks or months. This is probably from vit C, given the timing (it’s alI I’ve been taking for 2-3 days, the stuff is from today), but can’t just be from it increasing oxidation. The chelation affect of it must be playing a role, right?

But this neuropathy, random zapping and stinging pains, everywhere, happening at a high frequency right now, I don’t want to just let this continue, whatever it’s doing. I will try to test the hypothesis that it’s a true copper deficiency from the huge vit C doses, and that taking the ceruloplasmin cofactor minerals (K, Mg, Se, Mo, Zn, maybe even a little Manganese) first and then cautiously trying just a little copper will get me fully back into balance, if calcium has been lowered enough.

This neuropathy and pain is too continuous -hours now) to be a dieoff, in all likelihood. And it could be an infection acting up, but I doubt it.


What is your ceruloplasmin value ? You say it feels like 0, but this if value is quiet rare.
How do you approach the toxicities you say you have, do you measure elements in blood or urine or just hair to see if body is getting rid of them during chelation or you just feel better after a chelation in general ?
I know it is very rare for this to happen with no ceruloplasmin, but I am not a normal case- that's why my health has been so terrible in this way since september. I got seriously imbalanced with DMSA, and then my eating loads of calcium in this state made it worse. It's not normal for someone to be this badly imbalanced, most people do not have suppressed immunity like this and vitamin A intolerance and liver detox dysfunction. All these things make it so that if I ate like a normal person I easily could be dead by now, just from these few months. So many foods give me harm now, but some of these have actually started to improve recently as my metabolic rate has gone up again. This is a very rare thing to have happen at my age, and it onky happened to me becuase taking DMSA for mercury poisoning (which is all gone now) and eating too much calcium too quickly are not very common things to do lol.

I use hair tests, and how I feel. I haven't gotten bloods recently. I match my intake of minerals (when I get large amounts of a mineral from food, I notice, and never forget it, same with when I chelate, etc) with everything else that changed around that time, and I keep a coherent picture in my head of what my level of each mineral roughly is. But times like this week when I do a ton of chelation change things a lot very quickly, so now I know less about my mineral balance than I did a week ago. But this was something I had to do, sooner or later, so now I will test some minerals and my resposne ot them and get a new picture from that.

I knwo I've fixed a toxicity when the specific bodily functions/enzymes that that mineral suppresses when its toxic are gone. Body chemistry changes as well; I feel different. Not just a matter of feeling better overall, but feeling better in very specific ways. Each mineral when your're toxic in it, I've found, has its own unique group of enzymes it makes the body shut down. So zinc toxicity feels different from magnesium toxicity, etc, so when I don't feel that way anymore after a chelation, then I know I've fixed that toxicity.
 

Shuddering

Well-Known Member
Dec 11, 2019
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#45
So I took from food and chlorophyll maybe 5 mg of copper last night, along with more potassium, and almonds, almond butter, cashews for more copper and more K and more magnesium. 12 hours + later it is clear that this new copper didn't stop this neuropathy, etc. This neuropathy in hands and soemtimes lower legs or feet, and random zapping pains throughout anywhere in body, they have continued relentlessly for hours.

But I think I know what this is now. I think it is from the vit C, but probably is not from any mineral being depleted, though maybe copper has been depleted from the 20-25g of it I took (or not, I will not take copper again, since I may still have a lot, I will stick to my policy and not take copper again until I'm anemic, or my estrogen has gone up again). I think what really has probably happened is that the vit C caused another perforation in my colon from the acidity, and so now waste is leaking out into my body and autointoxicating me again. It's still very bad like last time a few weeks ago, except that it actually isn't as bad as last time because the c diff is not active. From body becoming more acidic for good, or from my use of the probiotics to kill it off again a couple weeks ago.

In the vit C megadosing studies in the mid-20th century that I was doing this for (to fix the potential tumors that are paining me from this week, and to control the virus), it was noted that "bowel tolerance" was the limiting factor for taking it orally. A strategy they used was to give as high a dose as possible (spread out over the day taken every 30 minute in small doses) before it would cause diarrhea. That indicates that the acidic vit C does damage the bowel in large amounts. For a person with working copper metabolism, that bowel irritation would just result in diarrhea, but for me in my very vulnerable state it seems to have resulted in another colon tear, just liek the one a few weeks ago that seemed to be caused by eating iron-enriched pasta with tomato sauce.

So to heal this colon tear I will just do what I did last time. I had actually speculated that what helped to cure it last time was vit C lol, from increasing metabolism or from chelation, but it may just have been all the diverse proteins and butter that I ate that week for the purpose of repairing the damage and sealing the hole. I think that is more likely, in restrospect, because I still feel even better / higher metabolic rate as my baseline now than I did then, so it was probably just giving my body the resources it needed to repair that fixed it, rather than opening up shut off enzymes with vit C or ALA or something that time. Yeah this definitely feels like bowel inflamation/autointoxication just without the c diff toxins which were even worse than this. And I have been getting some loose stools today (not the nrom for me recently, these ones are unusally watery for this last month), so I think my colon tear hypothesis from vit C's acidity is probably the correct one.

So I will use protein and fat to fix this colon tear, and end this new bout of colon waste leaking into blood and poisoning and paining me constantly. This is less than 2 days old this one, and without c diff this time, so hopefully it will be fixed rapidly.


I think the virus may be continuing to eat away at me and causing some of these pains (a minority of them, but still serious threat especially in my brain, spine, tumor risk), although the vit C (or maybe the IP-6 before, one of the two) really decreased the pains in my spine and left side, though both are still there.

If the pains start growing again, I will look to see if I can get IV vit C injections, so that . If that doesn't work I'll know it was the IP-6 and inositol that reduced my consistent pains in left side and spine (suspected tumors/cancers), and I can just take those again. And succinic acid might work as well for that, some people said it fixed that specific problem (eg, 3 years-long constant pain in their kidney, fixed rapidly by pure succinic acid taken orally).

For chelating the rest of the calcium, it does not look like vit C has been effective enough for that, though maybe I just haven't used enough (If I did the full doses of TEI supps every day, I'd have used far more by now). I will try succinic acid soon once my body has recovered a bit to see if that does the trick for the rest. DMSA strongly depleted all my minerals, maybe this will be similar. This time though, I'll know what to do to recover from mineral depletion quickly, and if the calcium gets low enough from that I should be able to restore my ceruloplasmin very early on, and all these infections and prone-ness of my bowel to get holes in it from stressful substances will be gone forever.

So what is the plan now? I will stay off of vit C again, and stay off of IP-6 and inositol for now unless my persistent recent pains in left side and spine return and get stronger again. If that happens I will also maybe try other antiviral stuff for it, but I'm not sure what would be safe for me to take with my body this fragile. So I am done with vit C again, and if I use it again in significant doses for the antiviral antitumor effect I will try to find a place where I can get injections of it instead, to avoid it tearing up my colon again and putting me in pain all day again like right now. I will not take any chelators these or others for the next day or two. I will use this time to just eat tons of protein, sardines (glycine, organs, vitamins, intestines), bone broth, mineral oil, take glutamine, etc. The next chelator I use will be succinic acid. Hopefully that will be what finally cures me of calcium toxicity, and I can finally pull myself out of this mess from there.
If that doesn't work I suppose I will look into going fully on TEI again, but only provided the short term infection threat can be dealt with. I'm not going to make myself more vulnerable to these viruses in the short term so they can just destroy half my brain or give me chronic fatigue syndrome or something. I'd also need some clarification first on how their massive doses of mineral supplements work, and how this is undone eventually. Gbold's post from curezone several years ago gives me strong doubts (he said ARL and TEI just make you toxic in zinc and manganese), it is consistent with my initial strong skepticism of this aspect of the program. Maybe then I'd do TEI in full if all that doubt could be resolved. But I am optimistic about chelation for calcium.

Should just get a new hairtest now? Is there any advantage to waiting a bit longer? I think my body chemistry has changed in some notable ways from the december one. I bet I'm much further away from 4 lows again, but tissue copper and iron are even lower, and my calcium will still be high in ratio to other electrolytes (unless they rise and it doesn't, but I'm still toxic in Ca regardless).

I certainly feel like a fast oxidizer still. Still have enough energy for the day, walk quickly when not in bad pain, good hormone production except for the sodium copper iron calcium dependent ones. Emotions and mood are good when I'm not feeling lots of pain or discomfort in a given moment. Eating maybe typically 3000 calories a day.

What are good antivirals for me to use now to buy time? What compounds can one take to quickly and briefly and safely swing the pH of the body to alkaline to kill viruses, like Helen talked about for his cancers?
 
Oct 27, 2017
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#46
You might have some form of neuralgia and not tumors as you say about those back pains. From what you say it seems you need to work more on the gut repair than to chelating more stuff out esp after your last hair test from which is seen you had chelate enough already. I bet your cerulo is not 0 as this is aceruloplasminemia and is rare and you should knew already if you had it, even so some of the things you plan on using to repair could interfere with the levels of ceruloplasmine, but the former should be priority i think compared to temporarily cerulo levels for ex.
 
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Shuddering

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Dec 11, 2019
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#47
So I stopped the vitamin C megadosing since it made a perforation in my colon I think, and caused pain tinnitus and neuropathy in hands throughout much of the day for a few days. But it is way less bad than last time a couple weeks ago because c diff is no longer active- I didnt' feel the intense pain from that anymore. I might have already healed this colon hole now, because the bad symptoms are significant reduced.

The vit C megadosing, and IP-6 & Inositol earlier in the week, seem to have made my persistent pains in spine and left side (suspected tumors) way less intense now. I am much more functional again, I don't feel the one in my spine basically at all, the one in my left side still is present though.

For a couple days I didn't take anything. yesterday I started succinic acid (SA), and continued today. 1500 mg total so far. It gives me brain fog for hours, gives me some initial brief light pains that last for a bit (toxic metal redistribution, or calcium plaques breaking up), but much less than in the past months ago, since my toxic metal load is very low now. Brain focus is already recovering now, many hours later. It also did not give me the liver pain that DMSA did. That is good. DMSA takes several days for the cells to push out all the metals it will remove, so SA might work the same way. I will maybe take a bit more tomorrow, to get to maybe 2.5g total for the weekend. Then stop it and see how things have changed several days from now.

Sidenote- what if the cases of chronic low copper from DMSA are from its mercaptans being stuck in the cells when the liver is unable to detox them (eg me)? Is this like how some here have suggested finasteride can bind to NADPH and stay stuck there, and that's why these conditions can last basically forever? I doubt this is the case for DMSA, my estrogen receptors still worked in most of october (but I took 2g more DMSA then, so that maybe made it worse and permanent? But then my estrogen sensitivity improved a bit again in late November when I took 2g more DMSA. I haven't taken it since and doubt I will again).

I read stuff today on magnesium and its ability to remove excess calcium form the body, to put it into solution, and to move calcium out of the cells and mitochondria (which I think is my big problem). Eg see here- TEI's practice of using magnesium and B6 to cure excess calcium levels- (https://www.traceelements.com/Docs/News April 87.pdf) although elevated calcium in the blood and hair is not necessarily reflective of the problem I think I have, which is too much calcium in the cell. I took way too much calcium in October, and far too little magnesium. I will keep pushing magnesium from here, and see where it takes me. The one concern is that magnesium is not bioavailable in me, and so it might just accumulate in organs. But I know what magnesium toxicity feels like- it puts you in alkalosis and makes you intolerant to fats. So if that happens I will just have taken a little too much and I can chelate it out to rapidly undo it, as I have before with ALA And DMSA. And when I took it today it did seem to result in some energy improvements afterwards, but also some discomfort, elevated heart rate, a little pain, as it does for some people. I took a few hundred mg maybe of magnesium oil on my abdominal skin. I am taking a few hundred mg more tonight orally, this time mag chloride.

My energy and walking speed was way up this afternoon after SA and mag. This might not be good though, might just be temporary. Hopefully it's not just an artificial metabolism increase from SA, vit C, inositol, etc.

I don't want to use the chelators too much. I had read that the antioxidant and chelator ALA, like resveratrol, can become a pro-oxidant when taken too much. Vit C and IP-6 and SA might be the same, for all I know.

SA, and the IP-6 I took before it, is probably lowering many minerals heavily. Taking magnesium is all the more important, especially if it lowers them at anywhere near the efficiency that the very similar DMSA does. 2g DMSA depleted me of many different minerals. Fully depleted me of them. It was that effective. So taking 2.5 G SA total, which I will aim for, could deplete me of tons of stuff. My body also seemed more willing to eat high molybdenum foods again today (peas, beans), and responded well to magnesium in some ways, so maybe it is already happening.

So my plan for now is: get another hair test. Things have changed a good deal since last month, and I will get the TEI recommendations again this time and implement them as best as I can safely do, if this SA chelation is not enough. I think my imbalance is pretty simple, and just by lowering calcium for long enough I should get out of this. Unless maybe sulfur toxicity is a thing too, because of all that MSM (20g or more) I took in early september in the hopes of loweirng mercury and magnesium enough to get me out of that mess those two minerals had me in back then. It didnt work well, only DMSA did that, a couple weeks later. My sulfur since then has been high relative to other minerals in hair, this is a very bad or worrying sign, it is a copper antgaonist. How do you get excess sulfur out? SA chelation?

I just tried vitamin B6 again (TEI recommended), and i didnt get neuropathy from it (but I haven't taken the full dose yet). Maybe it will do that, or maybe it was thiamine that did that, when I last tried them together. I will try tomorrow to start the TEI supps again as much as possible, and lower my calcium with them. SA is probably lowering my calcium and copper and probbaly iron significantly, and lots of other things I need to replenish, but I don't know if it is doing this enough for calcium. TEI supps are maybe slower, but more targeted. I will try tea leaves for mangaense and chromium (I think my potassium is up now somewhat on hairtest from how I feel, and I'm moving away from 4 lows though still very low iron and copper), instead of the painful and possibly mostly unusable chelate supplements of those metals.

I will not take zinc with the b6, just get it from beef. In some cases zinc + b6 causes a PFS-like state, maybe fixable with replenishing opposing minerals and chelating zinc, but maybe not, and I dont want to risk it (I know zinc alone will cause PFS as it did for me when I ate too much beef- I fixed it with just low dose ALA in a few days). It probably won't TEI gives them together for lots of people in large doses, but I want to play it safe.

Once my intracellular calcium is no longer at high toxic levels, and my adrenal glands and ceruloplasmin work properly again, I will have high levels of sodium and potassium, and my body can then take care of my infections and put me into the zone of safety again, and then I will be and by avoiding milk and cheese for a while and so some months of that in a fast oxidizer state should take care of my calcium deposits and calcifications, including my liver and scalp, so my pre-mpb will stop and be reversed (helped by lots of citrus, and IP-6 maybe, and saturated fat, and zinc copper boron iodine selenium magnesium electrolytes), and my liver detox function will be restored again to how it was before I had too much milk in early 2019 (which really fucked my body up since then) which will let me handle all sorts of foods again. The increased peristalsis naturally resulting from my enzymes reopening again will clear out my gut and lymphatic system. My body will release all the waste it is holding. And then I'll finally be healthy.

Something, I think the magnesium I took (it has done this in the past), is giving me some occasional sharp pains, some tinnitus. It could be the virus as well.

You might have some form of neuralgia and not tumors as you say about those back pains. From what you say it seems you need to work more on the gut repair than to chelating more stuff out esp after your last hair test from which is seen you had chelate enough already. I bet your cerulo is not 0 as this is aceruloplasminemia and is rare and you should knew already if you had it, even so some of the things you plan on using to repair could interfere with the levels of ceruloplasmine, but the former should be priority i think compared to temporarily cerulo levels for ex.
Ok, it is good to know about this as the possible cause of these pains. I will say though, that these 2 persistent pains are new and only appeared last week, when my body chemistry seemed to change and my metabolic rate went up, and my bacterial infections seemed to be suppressed while I got symptoms of viral infection elsewhere. I also have all the symptoms of low copper bioavailability, and it does get worse whenever I take copper- consistently for months now. And this is reflected in my new hair test in the low levels of copper and iron (but getting a new one now will give more clarity, since I feel less close to burnout now than I did then, even though I've been chelating a bunch again this last week. It will show other minerals not as low I think, but copper and iron still low).

I think gut repair will come naturally once my calcium (and maybe sulfur) goes lower, since then my body will raise sodium again, and with working adrenals my peristalsis will be way faster, and ceruloplasmin will let me repair gut lining for good, and let me use iron properly which I think is required for properbiel flow. All that should fix my gut- getting my minerals into balance, but for now I can only use patches to keep it under control.

I think my last hair test doesn't show that. I know I took in ridiculously huge amounts of calcium when my utilization of it was impaired, and so the calcium ratios in my december hair test are worse than in my october hairtest, since I kept eating it for 3 more weeks after the October hair sample before I stopped. I think the ratios in the recent hair test reveal calcium as still being the problem even after that chelation, and there remains a lot to remove. And my sensitivity to estrogens in dairy was present in much of october after DMSA screwed me up, but it went away later in that month, and hasn't permanently returned since. That, and the disappearance in response to calcium of my restored high adrenaline prodction in early october, which still has nto returned, makes me really think this continues to be the main problem. I wasn't taking in enough magnesium during that time, which solubilizes calcium, so perhaps I will see if taking mag helps me now.

Thank you for responding!
 

Shuddering

Well-Known Member
Dec 11, 2019
81
7
8
#48
2 days ago I took all the TEI vitamins again in the recommended doses, and didn''t get any neuropathy or substantial pain from them. excellent!
Yesterday I was behind on sleep but had lots of energy, presence. But much of that may have been an artificial boost from the vitamins.
I've been taking magnesium now, in 400 mg orally per day and hundreds mg more of magnesium oil. The mag oil causes some red bumps and rashes on my skin, I wonder if it is feeding microbes/infections. I am hoping it will push calcium out of my cells and mitochondria, and break up calcifications in body (what if this latter process slows/reverse the former, and sends more calcium into cells? I hope not). Also, the SA and IP-6 are lowering many minerals I'm sure, and I need to replenish. I had soem mroe molybdenum foods for this reason and already I feel full of them though. If molybdenum is still low in my next hairtest maybe that means it's not being used and i could be getting toxic in it? Just pushing SA further would lower it I think.

I've been eating lots (but not too much) of protein, and butter, but I am lowering my butter intake now I think. My body seems to not want as much anymore, which is no surprise given that I've been just pounding it for months.
I think the colon hole/autointoxication from the vit C megadose might be fully gone now. But I still get pains from the virus. Sometimes brief flashes of discomfort or pain in my head, but nowhere near migraine or headache level, which I've never really suffered from.

Waking up, I have tinnitus right now, and some on off pain in my left side again. And a couple random brief pains in my chest hands etc in what feel like blood vessels (copper loss from SA and IP-6? Virus?). The persistent pain in my left is still always here. Worrisome.

Besides mag, I haven't been taking the TEI minerals. Even in just 1/4 of the doses they give I would become toxic in them. I know they are to push out and block other minerals including Calcium in this case, I just cannot bring myself to make myself toxic in more minerals even if they have you take things to remove these as well in the next leg. I feel way safer using chelators.

Yesterday I didnt take vitamins but I did take more magnesium and Ip-6 (close to a gram) & Inositol (a few hundred mg) to push more calcium from cells. I am still waiting for my estrogen to come back again. The loss of minerals from SA might still be ongoing, but I only used 1.5g of it. I want to use like 2g more- maybe I'll do this later today or tomorrow when I've gotten more rest and feel better. And see where that gets me. I need to just chelate a ton. Lower my minerals I fear I'm at risk of getting too high in a lot more of them. Mag and B6 in that old TEI newsletter were enough for a case of too much calcium in those people's cases, maybe it will be enough for me.

I am having some doubts about parts of TEI. Their giving huge mineral doses, and gbolduev's old curezone post discussing this. I am really inclined to just follow TEI's general direction for me without the mineral supplements, and to rely on what has worked for me very well before for similar but less extreme problems- namely just using chelators.

I dont see the use in vit C anymore either, unless I got a bunch injected to slow the viruses/tumors. I think I will stick for now to magnesium, potassium, B6, IP-6, and Succinic Acid. And hopefully that will be enough. Maybe a few weeks will do it? If I'm lucky maybe even just a few days. I will basically just be sticking to the simple protocol I gave myself over a week ago. And this follows the general direction of TEI for me, I think they see the same imbalance I do (it's pretty clear on the hairtest, based on the ratios). It's just that taking some of their supplements is a mental leap I cannot or will not bring myself to do.

I feel kind of scared/tired/anxious right now. But I'm still behind on sleep and will try to catch up later today when I get the chance, and I chelated with IP-6 last night. And I'm in some pain possibly from that. Rolling pinpricks of pain across my body at random (blood vessels? Feels kind of like how it does after I take EDTA). I will do my work for today and eat a lot and drink a lot of water and then just fall asleep at the earliest possible time and just sleep forever. I'll just take potassium and magnesium at most today, my body can't handle anything else right now. And then tomorrow or the day after I can maybe use some more IP-6 or SA.
I need to remember that these chelators (and the TEI vitamin mix which doesn't have some things like b2, but I dont dare take b2 cause it can spread cancers an I haven't found a b2 supp I'm not allergic/sensitive to anyways) might be depleting me of vitamins, like how Helen said DMSA can deplete vit C. so they might make me feel like crap or even temporarily crash at some point. I need to be careful and not take them too fast.

I think of all the people whose health is damage or destroyed by the food and medical industries and the artificial govt regulatory support they receive, and all the lives ruined or worsened by PUFAs, dairy, nutritional supps, 'medicines', toxic metals, etc, and I feel terrible. The world is spiraling towards a supreme disaster/catastrophe. Billions, everyone on Earth, all victim to the same abominable delusions and crimes. I think of how I can see these things killing members of my own family and friends of mine, and how they refuse to acknowledge it even though it would be so much easier for them to stay healthy than it has been for me, because they were never poisoned with mercury. Life really sucks for most people. Life is suffering.
 

Shuddering

Well-Known Member
Dec 11, 2019
81
7
8
#49
I've taken lots more magnesium (over a gram, maybe closer to 2 grams) in the last few days, and several grams more manganese (and lots of pineapple, etc). I've eaten lots of red meat(zinc), and fish.
I took a gram of vit C yesterday but that's all I've taken of it. I took the TEI supps a couple times, B6 etc. I had another gram of IP6 and a couple hundred mg inositol last night, for the first time in days.

I want to take succinic acid again, it's been a week or more now. I took only 1 or 1.5 grams last time, now I will take another 2 grams or more over a day or two.


I have been suffering from a new kind of brain fog in the last few days. It could be from lack of sleep (I am a behind a couple of nights due to life/working). I am worried it may be from the virus, or even a tumor in my brain (the pain in my left abdominal side is still here even tough its under control for now and not as intense as last week).
I am worried about my liver. Its detox function isnt working and hasnt for months, which is why all sorts of chemicals now give me pain, whether I eat or touch them. Last night I felt a sudden bout of tingling and brief pains across my body, and some was pain in my liver region, which in my experience usually only happens when lots of hepatocytes are dying at once (lower amounts dying does not cause pain). I continue to have a bit of yellowish discoloration in the sides of my eyes all the time.
My scalp tingling is up a bit the last couple days, so it now slightly exists again isntead of being at nothing, which is good I think.

Today I feel very brainfogged, unusually so, in that it is hard to focus. This is concurrent with tinglings and brief numb pains across my body appearing at random, some scalp itch, etc. Viral activity? Intestinal toxemia/permeability? This has been going on all morning.

The other possible causes of my brainfog are from chelation, or brain damage in a specific region from becoming toxic in a mineral ( I suspect molybdenum, or manganese, both cause brain damage in toxic excess, and I know if I'm toxic in a mineral it's not zinc or magnesium since those dont feel like this, and ive been avoiding copper as well. Could be iron, too, but I doubt it. I've taken lots of phytate anyways which chelates iron. I will take more IP6&inositol, and more succinic acid, and maybe another ALA capsule (not all together obviously) in case I am toxic in one of these minerals now, and to keep lowering calcium).
Related, my visual focus at a distance is also noticeably worse/somewhat off in the same last few days.

It could also be the TEI vitamins I took a couple/a few days ago depleting me of other stuff due to being an imbalanced vitamin mix that they gave me?

I am going to sleep most of the day tomorrow, and catch up. I am behind 2 or 3 nights. This could be causing my brain fog.


I have been having better energy and adrenal function though this week, and am sweating again somewhat when I am bundled up and exposed to a bit of warmth/heat and when I walk quickly for a distance.

I had a large orange last night (a lower carotene variety) and I ate much of the fiber in it, maybe that is feeding gut bacteria and that's causing these current damage sensations across my body. Because these sensations are so diffuse and occurign everywhere , I think it's eithe rform the gut or form the IP-^&Inositol I took last night (whichc an cause a bit of oxidation damage afterwards soemtiems, I'm not sure why, it's kind of similar to how EDTA does. Maybe they are having a pro-oxidant effect and I should stop them for now, I've taken many IP-6 capsules at this point, Succinic Acid will probably be better from here.
It's either that or my gut or residual effects of TEI vitamins. Though if it is from my gut its not as bad as last week when megadose vit C damaged my colon, since that caused a tingling sensation in my hands that isn't here anymore for multiple days. But these damage sensations, though not really painful most of them, are very concerning.

I think IP6 last night lowered my nitric oxide as well, which is probably just temporary, it has done stuff like that before- chelation temporarily making you feel reduced body abilities/functions for a few days.

I will be doing a new hair test very soon. I will get the recommendations again this time. I think it will show I am now much further away again from 4 lows, that multiple electrolytes have gone up including both K and Na, that copper and iron are still extremely low unless I'm dumping them, and that I might be dumping some calcium, hopefully copper or sulfur as well. I am worried molybdneum will be low indicating I'm not using it, becuase I've been eating a lot of it so it might be a danger if that's happening. I'm worried I will still have too much sulfur as well. An a blog called iheal dot me, a woman described how she dumped massiv eamotns of copper, calcium, and sulfur (that she'd all probably been accumulating for years or decdes) on a low vitmain A diet alongside TEI supps. So that is reassuring, my amounts of these mienrals is probably much lower than hers were (or maybe not, if she had any substantial amount of ceruloplasmin durign that whole time).

So this weekend it's lots of sleep, lots of water and electrolytes, 2g more of succinic acid, maybe an ALA capsule (be wary of pro-oxidant effect if that happens or not), and maybe TEI supps (including retinol I'll try) or maybe I'll wait on those.
 

Shuddering

Well-Known Member
Dec 11, 2019
81
7
8
#50
@Bankai900 suggested this in another thread, which maybe I should try:
"'I'd rather fast for 1-2weeks and refeed properly. Then add electrolyte protocol with betaine pepsins ox bile etc. And do that 3-5x first year when it comes to gutbiome. Would fix liver instantly aswell. Had tinnitus during my first waterfast on off, mostly just some seconds 20-30 but pretty intense. Had very severe physical brain pain then. Couldn't sleep but yet was terryfied of getting more than 5h lol since upon waking up it was worst, with brain inflammation feeling like my head wrapped in foil inside and as if I'd have a blockage or "parting" in there. So it might be brain damage. Brain can get fixed tho with movement from what I understand, HIIT etc"

I have done some components of the electrolytes protocol recently but not in as high doses for as long a time. I have taken a lot of the b vitmains following TEI but not in as high doses as recommended in the electrolytes protocol, and I haven't yet found an essential amino acid blend that works for me becuase I get wrecked by tryptophan due to my bioavailable iron being near zero. So that is somehting I'd have to figure out, but if I did maybe this would be good to try.

I am reticent to try waterfasts because of @Helen 's comments about fasting being good for bacterial but not viral infection, and how his viral cancers got worse and spread on fasting. That scares the hell out of me and I don't want to risk it.

There is an EAA product on amazon that has great reveiews and no tryptophan, but I think it contains MSM and molybdenum, and I don't really want to take more of either of those elements since I think I'm getting too high in them already.

Edit: I'm also concerned about my ability to handle the digestive supplements recommended, since I keep getting very rapid heart beat and stress from digestive enzyme blends I try, and I'm worried that taking lots of betaine ( a methyl donor) could be dangerous since my demethylating enzymes might not be working since some are copper based, I suspect that getting too many methyl groups can be baasically the same as getting toxic in a nutritional mineral- and will shut off a bunch of enzymes.
 

Bankai900

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2019
247
108
43
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Poland
#51
@Bankai900 suggested this in another thread, which maybe I should try:
"'I'd rather fast for 1-2weeks and refeed properly. Then add electrolyte protocol with betaine pepsins ox bile etc. And do that 3-5x first year when it comes to gutbiome. Would fix liver instantly aswell. Had tinnitus during my first waterfast on off, mostly just some seconds 20-30 but pretty intense. Had very severe physical brain pain then. Couldn't sleep but yet was terryfied of getting more than 5h lol since upon waking up it was worst, with brain inflammation feeling like my head wrapped in foil inside and as if I'd have a blockage or "parting" in there. So it might be brain damage. Brain can get fixed tho with movement from what I understand, HIIT etc"

I have done some components of the electrolytes protocol recently but not in as high doses for as long a time. I have taken a lot of the b vitmains following TEI but not in as high doses as recommended in the electrolytes protocol, and I haven't yet found an essential amino acid blend that works for me becuase I get wrecked by tryptophan due to my bioavailable iron being near zero. So that is somehting I'd have to figure out, but if I did maybe this would be good to try.

I am reticent to try waterfasts because of @Helen 's comments about fasting being good for bacterial but not viral infection, and how his viral cancers got worse and spread on fasting. That scares the hell out of me and I don't want to risk it.

There is an EAA product on amazon that has great reveiews and no tryptophan, but I think it contains MSM and molybdenum, and I don't really want to take more of either of those elements since I think I'm getting too high in them already.

Edit: I'm also concerned about my ability to handle the digestive supplements recommended, since I keep getting very rapid heart beat and stress from digestive enzyme blends I try, and I'm worried that taking lots of betaine ( a methyl donor) could be dangerous since my demethylating enzymes might not be working since some are copper based, I suspect that getting too many methyl groups can be baasically the same as getting toxic in a nutritional mineral- and will shut off a bunch of enzymes.
Can't lie I'm pretty scared about that tumor/cancer thing aswell. I got kidney pain for 1 1/2 years now. It was gone after my crash but so was almost any feeling in my body for awhile and maybe I just igored it when it came back cuz my mind was focused on everything else, now it's worse than ever and it terrifies me. Otherwise my gut is just as pre pfs, my bowel movements are even better at this point. (minor acid reflux after my last fast still lingers if I mess up dietwise badly).

Ate prob like 3,5k kcal the 3 days ago at the party in like 3hours and drank with a short blackout. Woke up with flat stomach and solid bowel movement lol. Not feeling stuffed or full or anything. Amazing.
And I've no idea about viral bacterial stuff, just someone who keeps the basics. I think a lot of people forget those, and also forget what got them here in the first place lol. I got my sleep back after the flu, but same time I started 40 min yoga-meditation pre bed. So who knows.
Probably why most people actually get good on CDsnuts protocol. Since all of this influences the gutbiome. Cold water, sauna, breath work, hiit etc. Gundry, Sinclair, R. Patrick etc. seem all to be fond of those when it comes to inner health. Carb backloading great for circ rythms and cortisol issues. There are Ted talks about how the brain fixes itself so long the body has a reason to "hunt/move". Aswell as sum Japanese celebs claiming sirtuins are the cure-all. And btw there are quite some vids on youtube how basic supps mess up people due to their unnatural effect on the body, or substances in them being harmful. I'm not smart with this biochemistry stuff. I leave that to the rest, spilling my noob opinion here so keep that in mind. But I read all posts, and there are undeniable things that get the majority of people usually better lol. By now I hunt those everywhere on the net, personal "opinions". Cuz everything we experience here is "absurd", so I like those even in youtube comments. It's hilarious how many people claim recovery from using Paida techniques for example. So I just add every thing, but keep it simple.

And ye some ppl crashed on methyl donors on pph. Almost everybody crashed on something there. I liked @MNK99 s attitude, that noone should take too many supps unless having fasted first. Idk, at the start I just took stuff once every few days, never in a row. Especially if something made me feel good I skipped it for awhile. And like 1/5th the dose when it was the first time and increased till I felt more comfortable. I remember taking resveratrol and sooo panicking ahaha, same with b vits, or vit d3+k2, or sylimarin and so on ahaha
 
Likes: Shuddering

Shuddering

Well-Known Member
Dec 11, 2019
81
7
8
#52
And I've no idea about viral bacterial stuff, just someone who keeps the basics. I think a lot of people forget those, and also forget what got them here in the first place lol. I got my sleep back after the flu, but same time I started 40 min yoga-meditation pre bed. So who knows.

btw there are quite some vids on youtube how basic supps mess up people due to their unnatural effect on the body, or substances in them being harmful. I'm not smart with this biochemistry stuff. I leave that to the rest, spilling my noob opinion here so keep that in mind. But I read all posts, and there are undeniable things that get the majority of people usually better lol. By now I hunt those everywhere on the net, personal "opinions". Cuz everything we experience here is "absurd", so I like those even in youtube comments. It's hilarious how many people claim recovery from using Paida techniques for example. So I just add every thing, but keep it simple.

And ye some ppl crashed on methyl donors on pph. Almost everybody crashed on something there. I liked @MNK99 s attitude, that noone should take too many supps unless having fasted first. Idk, at the start I just took stuff once every few days, never in a row. Especially if something made me feel good I skipped it for awhile. And like 1/5th the dose when it was the first time and increased till I felt more comfortable. I remember taking resveratrol and sooo panicking ahaha, same with b vits, or vit d3+k2, or sylimarin and so on ahaha
I'm concerned about catching the flu. I don't know if my body could defend against it right now.

Yeah I'm extremely concerned about using supps, the ones TEI has given me. They give lots of vitamin A, which is toxic for me because of low estrogen. See here:
https://iheal.me/en/understanding-vitamin-a/
"estrogen has the effect of increasing the steady-state level of circulating RBP (Retinol Binding Protein) in plasma.
The thought behind this is that estradiol has stimulatory effects on the hepatic synthesis of RBP and its subsequent mobilization as the RBP-complex.
Estrogens have been shown to stimulate the hepatic synthesis of other proteins.
Important to understand is, that synthetic estrogens cause an elevation in plasma levels due to increased amounts of RBP that is not due to variation of dietary Vitamin A, but to an increased mobilization from liver reserves. (11)"

This is consistent with some of the people on the vitamin A toxicity thread on the Ray Peat forum having low ceruloplasmin in their blood. You take eggshell powder and drink milk all the time, when you're already a slow oxidizer with low vitamin D (this was me, I was a slow with low vit d because of mercury poisoning), and so you become toxic in calcium and this greatly lowers thyroid and adrenal activity, and shuts off sensitivity to and production of estrogen. Without estrogen you don't make more than very small amounts of ceruloplasmin and retinol binding protein.
So immune system (copper and iron delivery to cells) is strongly impaired, sex drive and memory are strongly impaired. Vitamin A is toxic, but you also are deficient in it because you can't carry it.

People with chronic health issues often are able to improve greatly from months of vitamin A restriction in their diet. Avoiding stress from lifestyle and constant tissue damage from vit A, infections, PUFAs, etc, lets the body improve its energy production and start to dump excess minerals even when enzymes are still impaired from the mineral toxicities.
That's what has been happening with me the last few weeks since I have destoryed the c diff (so far it has nto come back) usign the probiotics. So having all this time without constant serious pain and damage has probably enabled a higher metabolism in my body (it certainly has felt like it) and I expect on the new hairtest to see some minerals being dumped.

I know the TEI suppleemnts can enable these mineral dumps to occur more quickly, but I am seriously worried about the safety of them for me in this state. Multiple of them have given me liver pain, I am absolutely not going to mess with that or risk anything more. So I am shelving the b vitamins, and vit A, though maybe I will try b6 again in just 50 mg a day max (not the much larger amount they have me on).
And megadosing vit C may have helped a lot but it made holes in my olon that took days to heal, during which time I was in constant autointoxication, which saps the body's energy and slows the release of minerals.
I may keep using a single capsule a day of the vit C with bioflavonoids, but no more. Or maybe I will just eat lots of citrus instead, and get the same effect but better.

So the plan for now:

No more B vitmains except maybe B6, max 50 mg per day.
Sardines for retinol. Maybe a little bit of beef liver taken with IP-6 but be very careful the vit A in it doesn't destroy my own liver.
Keep eating plenty of meat and fish, and bone broths. Beef every day keeps my zinc and selenium levels good.
Eat plenty of fresh low carotene citrus (and not grapferuit! Impairs liver detox fucntion)- this excrete smienrals.
Avoid sugar besides the citrus and melon that I eat. Sugar makes dakr cirlws udner eyes wors-e it really taxes the liver. IT slwos the process of mienrla release from the body.
Butter with non-iron sourdough bread every day. Many slices of the bread daily for lots of usable calories. (people often feel best when they consume some 'junk food' (preferably not with much PUFA or particularly dangerous additives) and not just whole or natural or health foods like meat fruit and vegetables only. This si my experience right now as well.
High olein corn chips.
Chelate with succinic acid.
Lots of sleep.
Lots of water.
Sunbathe, swim in ocean, at least once a week.

Coffee Enemas daily
Sauna daily
(I need to restart these two again. )

And it'll kind of be like Wilson's protocol actually, without some of the harmful things. Low supplement- reliant mainly on food and detox procedures. But it's very possible that taking a few grams more succinic acid will chelate out the remaining calcium very quickly, and just fix things that way.

So lots of 'empty' starch, some butter, lots of protein
(for me, that is, it wouldn't be a lot to a bodybuilder).
No more of any of the TEI supplements except maybe 50mg B6 per day, and taking magnesium. Since my mnaganese may be partly biounavailable, taking more may be too risky right now. Seriously, the TEI supps are EXTREMELY DANGEROUS for me right now. My liver and body judy cannot handle them. And I hate the idea of taking them since taking isolated supplements and not just food can really imbalance you. I just dont trust it at all, I feel like I could be risking making myself crash or get a post drug syndrome (post vitamin in this case), or get liver failure. My body is still very weak right now in key ways, I cannot take any risks like that.

Wow yeah I'm feeling right now what I think based on the sensation to be a vitamin A detox form the one capsule of vit A I took over the last two days. I threw out the remaining capsules, the entire bottle, to avoid taking it again with my poor memory right now and maybe killign myself.
Wow yeah this feels really bad, just from 10k IU total. Fuck. Very bad ringing in ears, huge tingling etc, twitching eyelid muscle on one eye.
TEI would give me this every single day. They'd kill me.

I took all the TEI supps yesterday after I woke up, and I felt very terrible afterward, and not from deotx, this felt like some of the supps were just harmful.
SO I am done trying to make the TEI vitamins work, except B6 and C. the others, B1, B5 biotin Niacin (very risky, I first got liver damage/gilbert's a year ago from taking naicinamde alongside too much milk, other peopel have had this happen, too. I will not risk even plain naicin. It could kill me for all I know), foolate, retunyl palmitate and maybe even plain retinol. And the minerals I'm not gonna take either except electrolytes. I get enough of the other mienrals from food I'm pretty sure. Except I will be chelating again soon with SA, but still, not worth the risk.
The TEI supps yesterday made me feel terrible, pained, burnt out again, like I had a calcium shell or was mercury toxic again. I gave off lots of negative energy and flatness to the people around me. And this wasn't detox or anything. They are just harmful. Taking vitamin powders like this is bad. I am not taking the TEI supps ever again. This is the wrong way to do it. The more times I take vitamin and mineral supplements, the more risk I get of making myself very imbalanced and beign unbale to ever recover from it in time. I dont feel this way from just eating food. I will stick to food.
But my body's energy recovering already in just a day is a testament to improvements and progress I'm making.

Even the inositol powder (but not IP-6) might cause me liver damage when I take it. Not worth the danger.

I am not doing the TEI supps anymore, it's decided. They are just too dangerous. They could cause liver failure or seriously imbalance me or cause a post drug syndrome type thing, and taking all these supps is just not good for the body. TEI general guideleines yes, but supps no. I will stick to a core of Magnesium and (<50 mg) B6, and chelate with succinic acid (up to several G more before I shelve it). And maybe I'll try ALA again a couple capsules at most, to keep up the calcium release. And I can go back to IP-6 if I think iron is still too high.
And I will sunbathe, swim in ocean, do sauna, and do coffee enemas (I dont trust the olive oil in liver flushes), to speed the process of mineral release.

Maybe I can try a fast for a few days? Eh, I'd rather stick to chelation and just keep eating proteins.

My vitmain A deotx is still ongoing right now. I can still hear the ringing in my, a unique type of it.

But yeah someone's who's sick can crash from anything. I'm not going to take that risk, so i'm done with the TEI supps. They are going to crash me, if I keep taking them, so I will stop taking them. I am only doing magnesium and potassium and salt now basically, and chelators.


ARL says that people with a CA/K ratio (the thyroid ratio) of 35 or greater have 75% plus energy loss from impairment of thyroid activity. When I get out of this I will have so much energy. My low sodium also makes for poor adrenal output.I can't wait for when that happens, but the trick is gettimng there safely without getting liver failure.

And once my estrogen is back, my liver will still be crippled, so all sorts of foods including fairy will be a no go for me, and I will be sheedding hair very rapidly. What I will do then is stick to a high-ish protein intake (probably), and since butter will be bad for me again because of estrogen receptors being turned on again, and I wont be able to handle the pesticides in common beef fat and cocao butter products, and because suet and perhaps even back fat are not digestible enough (making them extremely dangerous for a sick person, they can destroy your colon and cause severe autontioxication across whole body) and can be unsanitary, I will get my saturated fats from beef bone marrow instead, for a while. That has worked for me in the past, and there is a source near me that sells quality marrow bones for pretty cheap.

With beef bone marrow for sat fats, and lots of meat and fish for protein, and maybe even the essential amino acid blend again since with estrogen back my iron metbaolism will be restored (lack of estrogen after menopause leads women to accumulate iron in their livers, as gbold has said. He is absolutely right about low estrogen being most people's problem as they get older, but for me I got to the end point of this process at a much younger age) and so I will be able to handle the tryptophan, and eating some more liver but not too much (for glandular therapy), I will over a few weeks or months of all my enzymes being open, heal and fully regenerate my liver and restore its detox function. My ceruloplasmin will take care of any infections in my gut or elsehwere, and a few months as a fast oxidizer getting plenty of magnesium sodium potassium with these high in blood from high thyroid and adrenal glandular activity, will decalcify my whole body, including my scalp, and the cobmination of these things will stop the shedding and let me regrow my hair.

I will supp iodine when I need it, but only very carefully because lugols is parltly treated by the liver as a toxin and will build up in it. But my iodine needs will go up because of my thyroid activity increasing so much.

My whole body will regenerate in time with this. Everything succeeds or fails though, on what is going on currently, and what is just in front of me. Getting rid of this calcium without using damaging supplements that make me worse and kill me.


I think the retinol in the vit A supplement may be reactivating bile flow more again. I will maybe actually try a bit of liver again (taken with IP-6 to inhbit the absorption of copper and iron), both to give my liver the proteins it needs to heal itself a bit (glandular therapy), since it has been taking so much damage recently (this scares me a lot. I felt liver pain just now and yesterday from the one total capsule of vit A supplement.) But I need ot be careful becuase tjsut abti too much vit A in liver can dmaage my own liver perhaps fatally, given the mutlipel paiend sesation I got there today .

I just took a new hair sample yesterday and sent it in the mail, so I will get a new HTMA with new TEI recommendations in the next couple weeks hopefully.


Modification of vitamin A metabolism in rats fed a copper-deficient diet. - PubMed - NCBI
Modification of vitamin A metabolism in rats fed a copper-deficient diet.

"a copper-deficient diet may cause defective transport of vitamin A from liver to blood"
 

Shuddering

Well-Known Member
Dec 11, 2019
81
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#53
So a week ago I sent in a new hair sample to TEI, still waiting on that. I am going to try to follow their supplement program as close as I possibly can, but I have to avoid stuff like the parapack with thousands of IUs vitmain A including retinyl palmitate. I tried a retinyl palmitate (synthetic?) + retinol (from cod liver) vitamin A supplement earlier this week or last week and I took just 10,000 IU over 2 days and it was a disaster, got very bad vit A detox symotims. Liver pain repeatedly, very scary. Not taking that again until estro and hence RBP is restored. The vitamin A sup made me feel like I wa smeurury toxi cagain all day after, making me low energy, depressed, tired, negative. Much better the next day with tiem to recover.
So stuff like that restricts what I can take with their regimen.

I know this changes the hair test, but at that same time a week ago I took 1.5 G succinic acid over a couple days and a few hundred mg ALA, to lower my calcium even more, and other things. Both seemed to have a strong chelating effect, but I think they may both now partially act as pro-oxidants- I have reached that point. They both caused me some pain on and off in the days afterward I think, and perhaps some of it was SA pulling massive amounts of copper out of blood vessels etc. I think that lowered my hair sodium since my adrenal function and sweating ability has reversed some of its recent gains. And they may have really lowered zinc (though I've been eating beef nearly every day), or manganese or chromium, since my blood sugar has tended to drop in the last few days just a few hours after meals even if those meals were big and included lots of protein and healthy fat. It's still like that now, and I think it must be from the chelation depleting some key minerals, zinc manganese or chromium being the main suspects. I suspect that TEI will give all 3 of those to me, so that is good.

SA and ALA now both seemt to act as pro-oxidants, they (probably) caused me brief pains hours or days afterwards, so I am done taking them for the foreseeable future. I will just move to TEI now (I hope I will be able to at least, that I can handle their supplements). This big chelation (1.5G SA chelates a lot of minerals, especially copper but lots of others too molybdenum manganese zinc magnesium chromium, etc, and I took some IP-6 this week again as well which also did it) has helepd prepare me for TEI, since it gives me more leeway with their big mienral doses before those become toxic in me,. I am not looking forward to takign all thso emienrlas, but I will do it if maybe in somewhat smaller doses. I will just do the program now if the supplements arent intolerably harmful to me in my weakened state with my liver going in and out of being on the edge of disaster with all the stresses it keep sgettign exposed to right now.

On the plus side, I had this particular kind of brain fog develop last week where it was very hard to focus and think in part of my mind, and my distance vision became impaired, but within a few days after this chelation, it went away completely and several days later now has still not returned. My cognition is better again. I was worried at the time it was a virus or a rapidly growing tumor or something, but now I wonder if it was molybdenum (which I got a lot of recently in diet and have been worried for awhile I am near the threshold of toxicity for) or manganese getting too high and becoming toxic (both are known to cause brain damage when this happens) and chelation lowered it and thus fixed it. Either way, the brain fog appearing out of nowhere for days had me seriously scared, that it would ruin my life, but now I have escaped it, for now at least. My memory still remains terrible (low estrogen).

All I took in the last several days was digestive enymes (but these may be giving me liver pain and pain elsewhere, so I stopped them), a bit of potassium, ionic chromium with trace minerals complex, oral magnesium chloride and magnesium oil transdermally. I will keep it that way. No more chelation for now except maybe IP-6 sometimes. I am waiitng for the new TEI results so I can try to get on the program.

I keeep gettign bad tinnitus duing part of the day (usually at night). I think this is a virus. I am worried about cancer risk etc. Remember that my copper and iron delivery to cells is near zero- very low, from low estrogen caused by calcium toxicity (body turns off estrogen when calcium is a ttoxi clevels becuase estrogen etains calcium and increases its absorption from food), which is why I've had these chronic infections for months- bacterial for sure and probably viral (more recently). Because of this ruined mineral transport impairing immunity, cancers are absolutely something that could happen. I found a lump (a small red cyst) on my testicle today, which now I am very concerned about. I found a couple similar looking things in other parts of my body like on my leg. Just a few of them total that I found anywhere. Mabe it's nothing serious. If anything like this turns out to be a dangerous cancer that's threatening me, I will maybe try to find a naturopath to do intravenous vitamin C therapy, and also make a thread here asking for other treatments to buy me time until I get my minerals balanced using TEI. The SA, vit C, and IP6 all are anticancer and after taking them I've had multiple times my dull chronic pain in left side and on spine go away fully or be reduced.

My mood has still mostly been good. My energy not bad- I'm still functional. A bit behind on sleep which I'm not happy about. I think my DHT may have increased this week after chelation.

This remains an extremely precarious situation where everythign could fall apart at any time. I could crash and have my life be ruined.
If I do nothing, I will remain in this state for sure and disaster in the long run is inevitable. But I have been doing a lot. I 've been for months now avoiding calcium, chelating whenever I think my body can handle it and has had time to recover from the last one without imbalancing my other minerals too bad, taking the minerals TEI had me on though not at such huge amounts - these ,omrts;d are antagonsitic to calcium copper iron. Mag is especially impottant perhaps or delaign with calcium oberload, and I've taken a lot recently, but still this calcium remains, so much of it..
I can't continue on the chelaotrs right now they could imbalance or damage me. So I will switch to TEI instead as best I can.

I see why they dont give copper until ti very low in states like these. Copper they say raises calcium in the cell and lowers potassium (hence how copper lowers metabolism). I have to keep lowerinb calcium, and only when that's removed and metabolism is restored as a result from magnesium being freed up for the adrenals from that (instead of being used to handle the calcium) and that allowing potassium and magnesium back in the cells, will my body let estrogen exist again. Only when metabolism rises and the other electrolytes are freed up and able to do their normlal jobs.
 

Shuddering

Well-Known Member
Dec 11, 2019
81
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#54
In the last week I haven't taken anything. I've just been trying to carry on with my life while I wait for the TEI results so that I can start their program in earnest, since my calcium seems to be too excessive for chelation to fix it without doses that would seriously endanger me.

My temps have been pretty good, but my body function overall remains stagnated in this general bad area. I'm not fatigued or anything, and I have the energy to get through every day, and have good social presence etc, but I'm not vibrant / where I should be. Estrogen remains zero. I have continued to sometimes get very slight increases in sensitivity to dairy hormones, etc, which then go away. I remmeber that in Ocotber my estrogen receptors were still working- dairy hormones gave me symptoms, but they didn't from november on, except for a couple brief weak increases that went away. I am trying to remember if when I was truly copper and iron deficient in late september after my first time with DMSA my estrogen receptors were active or not. That is a very important question, because it disntinguishes the very similar but separate issues of depletion of minerals for ceruloplasmin, versus being poisoned with calcium causing low estrogen (and shut off estrogen receptors) and thus low ceruloplasmin..


I continue to get chronic inflammation, ringing in ears all day, random pains or tingling across my body. My peristalsis is slower again. My sweating capacity is a bit lower again. It could be that the chelation from 2 weeks ago depleted me of something important, or maybe not. This clearly isn't like those cases from last year where fixing a mineral toxicity required just brief chelation and would be resolved instantly. I continue to think that this is a case of extremely high calcium load causing suppression of estrogen, including the receptors. And mineral toxicities never fix themselves on their own once they are bad enough. If I do nothing it will be this way forever, and I will get worse and worse as my body takes more damage (my liver is already very damaged, and I think I have low SODs which ages animals faster) until I die very prematurely. At this point, since chelation now offer only diminishing returns and much higher risk, I don't see what can be done except trying to make TEI work (I cant do it exactly, since I cant take their supp with retinyl palmitate. I will have to recreate any supps with vitamin A as best I can from my own separate supplements).

I think the bad brain fog I had a couple weeks ago for several days was indeed probably from some mineral (manganese or molybdenum most likely) getting too high, and the chelation I did after that fixed it.

At least the persistent pains in my side and spine are mostly not here anymore (for now, at least). But things in my body are still in an extremely dangerous place, and I'm worried about TEI making me worse before I get better- that might seriously disrupt my life in major ways in the next months, and I don't know what I'll do if that happens.

As i write this right now my heart rate has increased again, the ringing in my ears has increased, I am gettign a throbbing pain in my elbow. Is this a virus? Or a vit A or other toxin dump? This sucks.
 

Helen

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Oct 5, 2017
6,314
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#55
Hi, I answered about those posts 100 times, I am not going to do that again.

I thought you are chelating and not going on TEI.


I did not create TEI program, I have no idea of its long term outcome, although I have seen some results from 5 year in some people.
 

Shuddering

Well-Known Member
Dec 11, 2019
81
7
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#56
@Helen

Edit: Ok, I found your posts here where you discuss this:
ZINC FINGER THEORY DISCUSSION for PFS - 2 cases

I think I can see what you mean, I still am now very unsure what to do, since you did see lots of people seem to get worse on those programs and not get balanced, and you were willing to change your mind on that just because you contacted the company and they explained what they were doing? .

Re my own case: I did resolve to try chelation. I did it for weeks, being careful not to do too much too fast. It may have made progress for me in losing calcium, but all the "antioxidant" chelators become pro-oxidants when you use too much, and it seemed to have reached that point for me. Also, I was worried about severely depleting other minerals, so now I feel like my only option is TEI because it's more like a targeted chelation using supplements.


I might at this point just try to find a practicitioner who can answer about calcium detoxification, or contact someone from one of the companies themselves if they allow laypeople to do that.
I wonder if buying a potassium powder and megadosing it would work, since it is right next to calcium on the periodic table and so might displace it.

I found some info indicating that TEI might be far better than ARL, and that ARL might be dangerous. In line with what you said about people getting worse on those programs and never getting balanced, and how the company you called, it seemed, was TEI not ARL:

Clarification Regarding ARL vs TEI at Nutritional Balancing for Adrenal Fatigue, topic 2081451
:
"TEI Hair analysis can tell if you have a bacterial infection or a virual infection / When ARL can'r/ uses a diffent ratio for the oxidation rate then ARL dose/ Does not believe the use of to much calcium do to calcification can occur/ ARl uses it for most everyone including high calcium/ No suana for TEI/ no coffee enemas TEI do to the 4 lows can go much lower?, No vitamin D TEI, ARl 5ooo mg daily/ TEI starts with a low dose of supplements (wow did that work for me..I was shocked..I thought for sure nothing would change..got me out of the 4 lows). cost for me for supplements with TEI so far for 6 months (including my son ) $300 for 6 months (approx),"

Wilson, who learned from Eck/ARL (I know he isn't with ARL anymore) gives everyone 750 mg calcium per day, in addition to what's in his diet, and gives vitamin D. I am really wondering if this is why Wilson is so unhealthy and Eck died somewhat young- that they assume too often people are low in calcium and give it even when it's high on hair. Ray PEat effectively does the same and this is what he did to himself. And Morley Robbins and Rick Malter like you talked about do the opposite and give too much magnesium, not realizing how dangerous it can be. Maybe sometimes this is right, but clearly TEI disagrees, and I've seen lots of info now indicating calcium can easily become toxic (and when I had high hair magnesium last year, ARL might have given me more magnesium, but when I got more in diet on my own I quickly became toxic in it). Wilson says that most people (in the US at least) run low on calcium, which is laughable. The countries with the highest calcium consumption have the highest osteoporosis rates. Watts in a newsletter from the 80s talks about the harms of calcium oversupplementation, so he seems aware of it, and this seems reflected in his program.

Then there is also an excerpt from this interview:
Transcript: #66 The History and Future of Hair Mineral Analysis with Rick Malter - Myersdetox.com
"It reached the point that Watts also felt that it was necessary to modify the formulae of the supplements based on what hair analysis research was showing especially in regard to the dumping off excess copper or copper detox.
If you ever listened to any of the audio tapes of the seminars from the 1980’s, copper was Dr. Eck’s baby, so to speak.

Wendy Myers: Yeah.

Dr. Rick Malter: He kept emphasizing, when you dump copper, you go into a sodium, potassium inversion. That means your sodium is low, but potassium jumps up. And then they would supplement accordingly. Watts observed this wasn’t working. Something was wrong with the way they were interpreting that phenomenon.

He realized from the hair analysis research that copper lowers potassium. So how could it be if a person detoxes a lot of copper that potassium would go up? He realized, well, the cell is losing potassium, it’s building in the blood temporarily, going to the kidneys and being eliminated in the urine, but the hair also is a pathway of excretion.
So temporarily, the potassium goes up in the hair with the copper detox when it’s really reflecting a further loss of potassium. So if you supplement with potassium, the person gets better.

Eck wouldn’t hear it. He sent Dr. Watts on his way. So Watts left the ARL Lab in Phoenix when they had an established Trace Elements, his own lab and he’s developed that over the last 30 years with great success. And once he established the TEI Lab, he applied those interpretation modifications to his hair analysis interpretation. And then Dr. Wilson came along by the time that Watts left and he only got X interpretation.

And so as far as I know, he never picked up on the potassium loss phenomenon with detoxing copper. It’s a major difference between our approach with TEI and the Analytic Research Labs approach. "

So that's yet another potential problem with ARL, and another reason to use TEI if one does want to do one of them.

But I still don't have enough info provided to be willing to take their huge mineral doses, even on TEI which I think is much safer. Some of the things ARL does seem so questionable and dangerous to me. Like giving all this calcium and magnesium and vitamin D, emphasizing copper toxicity so much over other minerals, "putting the adrenals to sleep" as their default for the 4 lows, when many cases of 4 lows are probably just being very toxic in one or more minerals and that;s the problem to be fixed (like in my case). Otoh, you have said you've seen plenty of people recover from things like UC within months in these programs, and that some very long term results are incredible.

So I really don't know what to make of all this, since you still haven't provided clarity on some of these things. Was just calling the company with your questions really enough to convince you that all the cases of people seeming to get so much worse should be disregarded?
 
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Shuddering

Well-Known Member
Dec 11, 2019
81
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#57
All right, after reconsidering everything, and how ARL TEI even when they do work often take 5 years, and they stuff you with minerals, and seeing people here who are on them for a long time and do feel better but still have many bad mineral ratios (I know these are often for PFS people whereas I may be just a case of a mineral toxicity or two), and how I was balanced before this all happened, I was briefly healed before the DMSA and then the calcium, I have decided to stick with chelation as my approach, and not do TEI.

This post from Helen also is relevant here. I know his views on TEI ARL have become much more positive since then, but given the other things he's said and seen, and how he says today he can't vouch for the programs long term, and how chelation has fixed me of similar but less severe problems to this before, and how Watts certainly does not look balanced (grey hair even 20 years ago, etc), I am going to just stick to chelation. Multiple chelators have become tough to use recently, but I will figure it out. Maybe take it slowly. :

"
Nov 17, 2017
What I found is, for normal regular people . Chelation therapy is much more effective way to get balanced then using minerals.. Thus I rec Breuss protocol, chelation, and swimming in the sea daily and eating sea food and fasting, to get back all the needed minerals.

Most people who attempt to balance themselves with minerals long term. unfortunately fail and can create even bigger imbalances. Thus I rec mineral balances for very short times.

Since mineral interactions are a lot more than 5 minerals at a time. it is more like 30 minerals at a time. and sometimes these mineral interactions are not even studied. Like lithium, rubidium etc. This is a huge draw down of ARL and traceelements systems. Without rubidium your copper wont work. Without lithium your sodium and hydrogen will not work and PH will always be screwed up.

This is why I always say people taking multivitamins just shorten their lives.

I would rather take something like fulvic minerals along with chelation instead of multivitamin."

I guess I have no choice but to just stick with chelation. I definitely need to keep avoiding Copper manganese iron calcium sulfur molybdenum during this time.I am close to toxic in all of them, and most are mostly unusable in my body right now. So I must avoid them in diet as well. Every single one of these I have good reaon to avoid for now. Only removing calcium will balance me and restore my ratios. That is how the mineral ratios (and levels) get balanced. You chelate the minerals you are toxic in. It worked like that for me with mercury zinc copper magnesium in the past, and now it will have to again. Mega chelation- I will have to figure out how to make it work.
 

Ingeno

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2018
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#58
It is frustrating to say the least. Especially with conflicting information going around. I'm still doubting to go back on TEI/ARL because I might have to commit to it for 3-5 years to feel recovered and I might feel shit during those years. That are a lot of years to throw away/risk, because in the end we don't know if it actually makes you better.
 
Likes: Shuddering

Shuddering

Well-Known Member
Dec 11, 2019
81
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#59
Ok, so this is a long post. I want people to know that I didn't have the "racing mind" they accuse me of having when I wrote it (my mind has been close to the most calm it's ever been, actually, from getting rid of all these metals in my brain), I just spent a long time (a couple of hours) writing it, since it doubles as a form of reflection for myself. It is therapeutic for me.

It is frustrating to say the least. Especially with conflicting information going around. I'm still doubting to go back on TEI/ARL because I might have to commit to it for 3-5 years to feel recovered and I might feel shit during those years. That are a lot of years to throw away/risk, because in the end we don't know if it actually makes you better.
The thing that really gives me pause about ARL TEI is how they give huge amounts of minerals to chelate you. The very thing that results in people's minerals ratios being screwed up, is getting too much of a mineral. I have had this happen to me before with zinc, magnesium, and copper. Each time they put me into a state of severe impaired health kind of like this one. Zinc toxicity was exactly like PFS, all the same symptoms, and other people have reported the same. It was terrible. Magnesium was very similar as well.

I fixed them all immediately with low chelator doses. Well below what I've been using for this calcium problem. This is why I said I wanted to try to fix myself rapidly with chelation, because it had worked for me before. People here laughed at this but I had actually seen this happen- terrible chronic health issues being cured instantly from chelation.

But obviously this hasn't been working for this new calcium problem, which is so much more severe. I took in so much calcium. While I was fucked up from my first time using DMSA, which depleted my copper to 0, but also other supporting minerals for ceruloplasmin, so I couldn't handle the calcium. And I ate a pound of cheese a day for a fucking month. If it wasn't for that I'd be the healthiest person on Earth right now. I'd be completely fucking cured.

Even now, because I eat so clean, avoid PUFA, have healthy lifestyle, I walk faster than almost everyone around me, even tho my copper and iron delivery and electrolytes are extremely low. If it wasn't for this one problem, I would be a beast. I would be the most vibrant, energetic, present person anyone will ever meet.

I was actually cured briefly in august, though my mercury wasn't't fully gone yet, and it was just like this. This was just a few weeks before I took DMSA and ate all that calcium. I lowered my magnesium levels to subtoxic with just 12 mg or so ALA (I've taken many grams of it and other chelators since October to remove calcium, and it hasn't worked. Because once I became toxic in calcium some time in october, I didn't stop eating it yet cause I didn't realize, so I took in so much more, and made it so much more unlikely that I'll ever recover from it.), and it cured me instantly, my estrogen came surging back, my sweating, breathing rate, etc. and 12 hours later it got undone because I ate some potatoes.

And I couldn't repeat it since I still had too much mercury, so small amounts of ALA caused too much redistribution and would make me crash if I overdid it. But I had limited time to fix it cause I had my gut infection then, giving me intense pain, etc. I took 20G MSM hoping it would lower magnesium. It didn't, and maybe made me toxic in sulfur. IDK. So a few weeks later, with ALA not being able to do the trick, I ordered DMSA, and took it in a normal chelation round for several days with ALA, ended up being able to take nearly 2G. And this lowered my mercury massively so it was no longer really a barrier to me, and within a week I had ended up with my magnesium toxicity being fixed, but I also became deficient in copper and iron and probably moybdenum zinc selenium as well, became anemic and was scared I was getting permanent neurodegeneration (from lack of copper) so I ate a bunch of liver and took a bunch of copper and iron. Fixed anemia etc, but I didn't know then about all the minerals needed first to restore ceruloplasmin.

If I had just taken a much smaller dose of DMSA (even though these doses were normal for the cutler protocol and many others have done them just fine, maybe just a few hundred mg total), I probably would've been fine. But that isn't what happened.

I've lost everything in just the space of 2 months. September and October 2019. I had all the knowledge I needed by then to cure myself and stay healthy, on avoiding mineral toxicities and how to rapidly fix them with chelation if you do acquire one. but that is gone from me now. I was so close to being one of the healthiest people on Earth, but it looks now like that might not ever happen, and I am stuck with chronic diseases that might not ever go away, though I will keep trying things.


And I would've used my incredible health for good, if I had attained it. I have very important work/research to accomplish, not in health but elsewhere, that is necessary for the fundamental betterment of the world. I had everything required for this tasks- the personality and temperament, the upbringing, the drive and mindset, I had read the right things at the right time and thus develped the proper worldview for this.

It's really one underlying problem right now at least, causing all this, I think. Serious calcium poisoning, in my cells and some of my tissues/organs. I will try to follow TEI as best I can for this purpose without taking in toxic doses of minerals. Even if they do remove them months or years later, I think my body is not able to take that initiially. Im not sure I could survive it. So I will do these things and stick with it to cure this in the next several years if it can be cured/fixed in that time. But I'm comign to accept now that that might not happen, since we don't know the long-term results of these programs. So this mught really be it. I might only have a few years left, or several years left, of being mentally and physically capable to carry out my work, leave my contribution to the world, and thus have justified my short existence.

There isn't necessarily virtue in living a long life. I wasn't on track to experience that anyways. I was always so unlucky and below average in various regards, because of my metal poisoning. From as a kid. I was always treated differently by most people because of these stupid metals and how they affected my metabolism and brain etc. I had no choice in this, I had done nothing to deserve this, they were just injected into me when I was a baby and it's been that way ever since. I had an extremely narrow shot to cure myself fully and become healthy for good, in the last couple years. I had that chance, and very nearly made it, but blew it. It was in extremely unlucky cirumstances that this happened, that almost no one else has to deal with at this age, and only an extremely specific and narrow set of steps would've fixed me last fall, and I didn't do anything to deserve this and none of the other people around me who were never so unlucky as to have this problem their whole life that all but doomed them to a shortened and lower quality lifespan will ever appreciate it.


I have done a lot of research and reflection this weekend, and it has kind of shattered something in me, broken my ego (not fully yet, but I think I'm almost there), and kind of crushed me into accepting that this problem might not be like the others. I might not be able to cure it, only manage it as I age at a greatly accelerated rate, and watch my liver keep getting damaged, and suffer as random pains keep occuring throughout my body.

I am kind of accepting now that everything has changed, perhaps forever, even though I was just about to heal myself and fixed the original issue completely. Thst this isn't like with zinc or magnesium or copper or mercury- that calcium is much much harder to remove at these amounts. That my body from here on out will just be in a downward spiral, and I will try to maintain it for as long as I can and complete my work (fulfill my life's purpose) with the time I have left to do it, but that this is it.

My liver is already full (of toxins, unbound minerals, etc). My sweating is impaired. My body is fucked. It works better than most people in many regards, but it is sitll fucked despite this. The mental shift I am undergoing now, is accepting that this has happened, and that while I will try all these things to cure it over the next couple years, it might not succeed. this could be it.

The fact that I have such an important task to fulfill with my life is the reason that I keep going. My life has had some great sources of misery, especially in the last 10 years, and if not for this purpose, this knowledge that I am actually responsible for so much because no one else seems willing or aware of the need to accomplish this task, I would have killed myself years ago. The only thing that might have stopped me then was the knowledge that my family, my younger cousins, etc, would've have had to know that I did this. I have some decent friendhsips, and a couple of genuinely good ones, but I think they would have gotten over it (and that is the norm for most people, as we all know here- people are usually forgotten very easily after they leave a person's life). But even knowledge of what said relatives would think, I suspect, wouldn't have gotten me through last year. The only thing that stopped me from giving up and ending my life last year, on multiple occasions, is the understanding that I have a very important mission to accomplish, that I am very possibly the only one who will or is willing to do it, and that I have to find away, no matter what, to get it done. That is the only reason I'm still going even now, and why I have very little risk of suicide even now. I hate what has happened, and the realizatin of what has occurred threatens to shatter me, but I still have something very important to live for, so I must keep going. It might take just a couple of years, to do the core of it, which is the most important part, and from there I won't be needed anymore, and other people will be able to see how to take it from there. I can make it that long a couple of years, even though my memory is now terrible, and at any time I could contract another infection that fucks me up.

I'm coming to terms now with my impending mortality. I'm not going to get married. I'm not going to have children and raise them. I'm not going to be a paragon of health, hormones, and presence who leaves an impact on everyone I interact with. I'm not going to finish all the creative projects I began or conceptualized in my childhood and adolescence - I will only be able to do the most important one, the one that has the most utility for the world. I'm not going to leave a long string of great accomplishments over a long career as I had intended- I have produced maybe one such accomplishment so far, and have just one more in me.

Well, it's not like most other people have good odds to live much longer anyways. The world economy and the political systems of most nations are not sustainable, and will not likely outlast the 2020s anyways. What we have here where companies manufacture all these supplements, and we can buy them and have them shipped thousands of miles, is not sustainable. The internet, and modern telecommunications, and modern computers that enable them, are dependent on complex supply chains that span the entire world. How could anyone think any of this is sustainable without a carefully designed system- which we clearly don''t have? (Top-down (not bottom-up (almost all sustainable economic growth has been bottom up (thru developments and innovations in technology, efficiency, services,etc) , contrary to what some will claim))) Developments in the world economy have always been done randomly, or in a short-sighted manner. All of this stuff (just like the modern medical system where the same drugs and metals can be used to poison people anywhere on Earth- thus all these new health problems) is a historical oddity/exception, and is physically unable to be maintained for many more years. Computers the modern food system telecom "medicine" trucks (everything today depends on trucks) fossil fuels (which will never be replaced) minerals (for industrial purposes I mean, lol) mass electricity consumption, efficient mass production of anything, air travel, modern ocean transport, satellites, it is all dependent on a ridiculously complex and fragile system of production and resource allocation/transport. And you can only misallocate so many resources (including human capital) and add so much unnecessary complexity (unneeded regulations, etc) for so long, before something breaks, that can't be fixed, and then everything rapidly falls apart. Like really, just think about all these incredible things we have in the modern world that I just listed, and consider just how extraordinary it is that they all exist, and how extremely historically unusual they are, and ask how likely it really is that they can be maintained when things in the wolrd economy are already faltering so much, and actually have been for 20 years with the exception of China (whose growth is now coming to an end as well, and none of this as ever goign to be sustainable anyways).

. Most believe we will have a gradual decline, but that is just not how it works. Everything falls apart suddenly, with an extremely complex and fragile system like what the world economy has become, once it is exposed to too much stress or loses a key requirement for its function. We are almost at that point. This is not the 1930s, things are far too complex and mismanaged now to recover from any type of serious enough shock or even true extended stagnation. I mean really, jus thtink about how many thousands of tiny things from all over the world go into making the devices, systems, and machines now that are needed to run everything, to transport people and food, to keep everything running, every major inhabited area on Earth. There is no land/farming infrastructure to go back to.

Every civilization in the past has collapsed. Some civilizations arose on the same land occupied by former ones, when enough soil remained to support a large population. Sometimes surviving peasantry would remain there, surviving the collapse and ensuing decentralization of their civilization (sometimes it would barely change their lives at all), and could be revitalized. If nt that, then a migrating people might arrive on the land and settle there. Theres not much of any usable soil left today that doesn't require the continuous use of fertliizers, petrochemicals, vehicles, etc to produce food. The groundwater is mostly contaminated all across the world. The easy mining sites for minerals and energy everywhere on Earth are now depleted, all of these things are now only extracted from more difficult/less ideal deposits that require modern technology to access. Any semblance of a peasantry in most countries is gone, as they have been movd to urban areas and agriculture is done much much more efficiently (at least at first glance) with far far fewer people. There are no new peoples who can start a new civilization. Every group of people on Earth that had that potential, has now been civilized (which is not necessarily a good thing) and become domesticated , and is reliant on the same global supply chain that everyone else is just for the mere necessities of living. There is nothing after this, after the 2020s, because the stupid political leadership of the world for the last 100 years has, under the guise of "modernization" and "wealth creation", brought every single country to be reliant on the same global commerce system, for everything, so that if this system fails (and it's almost there), every country on Earth shall fail with it .

The 2020s are the closing chapter of human history, in the sense in which it has existed thus far.

So my life being tragically cut short actually won't be out of the norm. It will happen to nearly everyone. But I do have very important work to accomplish, I can produce, build, something that lasts, even through this impending global catastrophe. I can still make something of the 2.5-3 decades that I'll have had on this world, that will help the world. That is what I will continue to do during the next 1-3 years in my free time while I work on the health stuff in the background (maybe I'll decide to start TEI for real in the next few months- I'll see), and after that other people can take it from there- I probably won't be needed anymore, and I can see then if I am likely to recover my health, if it will even matter given what looks to be in store for the world after that.

My life has had some very happy moments, and some very terrible ones. I have been unlucky enough to spend my whole life dealing with a problem that barely ever existed before the 20th cnetury, of being forced right after birth onto a path leading me to a much shorter life and poorer health and energy than most people today (though it certainly beats the 30-40% historical infant mortality rate of mankind). I have taken so much shit from other people for things resulting from this- things resulting from mercury. And my health for this reason was on such a downward spiral a year ago and 2 years ago, and if I hadn't undertaken this journey I would get the same result as I'm likely to get now, only from a different path. But lots of people have it far worse than this. At least I'm not autistic. At least I never took finasteride, or got cancer before 18. I didn't get any dental amalgams. I never suffered from migraines. I never got a horrific skin confition or lost all my hair (yet. But if this does happen, it'll have occured by the point where I'm basically almost done with what I have to do with my life and will be much more ready to psychologically accept physical degeneration). I'm not homeless (at least not for now). I have still yet to lose my fundamental drive to accomplish in life despite all the times where it nearly was taken from me and I was nearly broken, even if these recent events force it to become narrowed to just one thing, as I was trying to do anyways. I didn't have abusive or neglectful parents, and I have a few people that genuinely care about me. I've been lucky enough to acquire many pieces of knowledge that most people to ever live never had a chance to acquire, and I am lucky to be able to use some of them to produce an advancement in human capabilities and knowledge that will greatly improve the world.

So what if I now have hemochrome/wilson's/Gilbert's/vit A intolerance from low electrolyte retention caused by calcium toxicity. I will do my best to remove that calcium. I will try the electrolytes protocol, I will try to fast, and then I will consider going on TEI maybe even in full in a couple months. And I will see if those fix me. And maybe replacement with aminos and b vitamins will do enough to make me greatly improved while I keep takign them (or not).
 

Shuddering

Well-Known Member
Dec 11, 2019
81
7
8
#60
And even if this all fails, I just need to survive the next few years with my brain still being somewhat functional, to accomplish what I have to accomplish in life. And then, if my health is completely fucked, and my life is a rapid downward spiral from there, I'll be able to die having accomplished what I wanted to more than anything else, and am actually obligated to accomplish (ethically).

When I don't list out everything above and take it into consideration in the moment, then accepting that my health really has changed for the much worse and I might never recover, is a lot harder to take. I feel cheated, and deprived, and hopeless, that my life is a great tragedy. But then, when I consider all of these facts, my mind grasps that in the grand scheme of things, my life will be a great success. By the time the next few years have passed, I'll have accomplished the one thing I really needed to accomplish, and have ensured that I will have a massively positive impact on the world. And then if I die, it will be alognside almost everyone else, but I will be survived by what I built.
A part of my mind has had trouble accepting that I won't have a family, and that I won't get to accomplish much much more than what I will end up having the time and resources to do. That this is really all there is for me, and that I'm now entering the final signficiant stage of my life. But I am coming to accept it now.

Perhaps more than half of all the humans to ever live did not even make it past 25. Of the remainder that did, perhaps most lived difficult, frustrated, tragic lives. Life is really hard and it's really unfair. And for most people today, it's soon going to get much worse. Even if I am doomed to never recover, and I have just a few years left, I will have had enough time to do the one thing I was born for, that I had to do. And that puts me ahead of almost everyone else to ever live. So, I'm actually quite lucky. This isn't a bad thing that has happenened- it forces me to be hyperfocused in the remaining few years that I would've had anyway (since even in good health I would not have been well-equipped to survive what looks to be in store for the world in the 2020s).