Saw Palmetto sufferer Log *Hair Test included

Walker

Well-Known Member
Oct 7, 2017
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Mountain Brook, AL
I really don't know. I always felt better after the snap back and I believe @Walker took vitamin e supplements while on CD protocol.

Even though vitamin e blocks estrogen it is beneficial to the liver and that's what we need to eventually cure ourselves. I never felt that vitamin e lowered my baseline after the snap back from it.
Yes, I took TocoCaps which was a Vitamin E supplement. I also took R Andro and Pine Pollen all through it which is anti-E. I would take the Vit E in TEI, if I were you @Olski69. Sometimes the best way to getting better is to feel worse for a bit. Sounds insane, but was my personal experience.
 

Olski69

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2018
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UK
Yes, I took TocoCaps which was a Vitamin E supplement. I also took R Andro and Pine Pollen all through it which is anti-E. I would take the Vit E in TEI, if I were you @Olski69. Sometimes the best way to getting better is to feel worse for a bit. Sounds insane, but was my personal experience.
Okay so I’ve been taking the TEI supps as recommended and I’ve found something interesting.

A couple of weeks or so ago I decided to try some of the pine pollen tincture that I’ve had in my fridge for a year or so now that was left over from when I last cycled the herbs.

Anyway, half an hour or so after applying the tincture under my tongue, my muscles became very hard.. doing exercise and push ups etc was giving me pumps.. something that hasn’t really happened since all this mess! The only other time I have experienced this is the first day I trialed testosterone.

Anyway, the first few days my libido was very high and I had a lot of sensation going on down there. Erections weren’t pre saw but my flaccid hang was back to usual most of the time.

After about 4 days the sexual improvements seemed to fade but I still get the muscle pumps all be it not as strong. I have experienced cold hands and feet a bit and lack of blood flow. Feeling maybe a little bit low E? One thing that did concern me a bit with the pine pollen is that it apparently contains Epitestosterone which is a potent 5alpha inhibitor according to Wikipedia. I figured several people have used it in recoveries so it’s hopefully all good.

I have cycled the tincture 5 days on 2 days off like lost empire herbs recommends. I will continue to do so along side my TEI sups. I

I know it’s not necessarily a great idea to throw everything in the mix at once, but if my body is reacting to it I will continue. If it allows me to exercise and gain muscle then that’s a positive for me.


This year is going to be my year! I’m hoping and praying.
 

Olski69

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2018
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UK
Okay so somethings going on. Started to get very cold hands and feet and a bit of dizziness and foggy mind. I’m tired a lot too and I’ve also had a little bit of discomfort occasionally prostate wise. I still get the muscle pump effect from the PP tincture.

I’ve cycled off the pine pollen tincture for a couple of days anyway. I’m trying to find some info on why I might be getting these symptoms.

If anyone has any idea please feel free to chime in.
 

esp90

Well-Known Member
Nov 11, 2017
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28
@Walker,

That’s right I remember now from
Swole Source 6”7” not 6”4”. You put this in your original post over their. So another Tall saw p victim who noticed higher estrogen levels made them feel better and who had high iron on hair test.

@Boris,

Yes there are some solid pattern’s here.

You, Myself, Helen, Walker, Olaski69, Cdnuts ranging from 6”2-6”7. Goose 6 foot arm span which is not exactly short.

Myself, Walker, Goose, Olaski69 Saw P victims who get worse from inhibiting estrogen.

Walker, Goose, Olaski69, Helen High iron on hair test.

The point about us probable having different hormone and receptor patterns is interesting and the link Helen posted about estrogen’s link with GH. I’m going to continue to research this.

@Helen,

Did you get PFS from Saw P or the Fin? Did you first take Saw P or Fin ? If I remember correctly you had issues from one of these three things recovered completely then had issues again at a later time after taking one of the three again?
I'm 6'4 too, took saw palmetto too, im 30, people say i dont look a day older than 20 cause of my feminine-looking face
 

Olski69

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2018
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UK
Okay so coming in with some desperation for some advice.
it’s been 7 days now since I have slept. Something has happened and I’m unsure what.
c

I cannot fall asleep. I have tried all of the natural things, magnesium, Epsom baths, tart cherry juice, valerian, massage, meditation.

Currently having ear ringing, hot flashes at night. Weirdly my balls and dick are hanging very well flaccid. Balls aren’t tight up to my body? Enormous dark circles around eyes.

Not going to lie it’s pretty brutal and messing with my head. My thoughts were that the pine pollen has crashed my estrogen but then when I’ve had low e2 before I’ve never had this flaccid and ball hang. Have I got high e2? Never had this type of hot flashing at night before.

Normally ride the storm but it’s not healthy to go on like this. If anyone has any thoughts on which direction I can take this. Currently off all supps and herbs and waiting to come back down to baseline. It’s been a week now and I’m currently writing this at 1am
 

Goose12

Well-Known Member
Oct 6, 2017
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Cincinnati Ohio
Okay so coming in with some desperation for some advice.
it’s been 7 days now since I have slept. Something has happened and I’m unsure what.
c

I cannot fall asleep. I have tried all of the natural things, magnesium, Epsom baths, tart cherry juice, valerian, massage, meditation.

Currently having ear ringing, hot flashes at night. Weirdly my balls and dick are hanging very well flaccid. Balls aren’t tight up to my body? Enormous dark circles around eyes.

Not going to lie it’s pretty brutal and messing with my head. My thoughts were that the pine pollen has crashed my estrogen but then when I’ve had low e2 before I’ve never had this flaccid and ball hang. Have I got high e2? Never had this type of hot flashing at night before.

Normally ride the storm but it’s not healthy to go on like this. If anyone has any thoughts on which direction I can take this. Currently off all supps and herbs and waiting to come back down to baseline. It’s been a week now and I’m currently writing this at 1am
Insomnia is the worst thing ever. I feel for you. I felt the same way for three or four months after I crashed. At that time I was itchy all over, scalp on fire, crazy anxiety, and racing mind.

I think I have hit a breakthrough with saw palmetto but it's still to early to tell. Dark circles around eyes is the best indicator of where we are at in our recovery. Dark circles under eyes correlate with where we are at in our recovery. It's mainly related to our liver health. Liver problems are keeping us from recovering.

What I am currently taking is jarrows bile acid, krill oil, calcium d glucarate, bruess juicing, and slow oxidizer diet. I am also juice fasting once a week and adding carrot juices and celery juices. Calcium d glucarate crushes estrogen but it's really good for the liver. I am going to keep experimenting with this and see how far it gets me. Even though my estrogen is being crushed right now I am feeling great, mainly from the bruess juice. Dark circles have greatly improved.

Focus on liver/gallbladder health. Bruess juice and celery juice will help with sleep. I have been lazy on juicing and buy biota bruess juice off of Amazon. You can skip the calcium d glucarate for now.
 

bruschi11

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2017
2,593
2,144
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Boston, MA
Okay so coming in with some desperation for some advice.
it’s been 7 days now since I have slept. Something has happened and I’m unsure what.
c

I cannot fall asleep. I have tried all of the natural things, magnesium, Epsom baths, tart cherry juice, valerian, massage, meditation.

Currently having ear ringing, hot flashes at night. Weirdly my balls and dick are hanging very well flaccid. Balls aren’t tight up to my body? Enormous dark circles around eyes.

Not going to lie it’s pretty brutal and messing with my head. My thoughts were that the pine pollen has crashed my estrogen but then when I’ve had low e2 before I’ve never had this flaccid and ball hang. Have I got high e2? Never had this type of hot flashing at night before.

Normally ride the storm but it’s not healthy to go on like this. If anyone has any thoughts on which direction I can take this. Currently off all supps and herbs and waiting to come back down to baseline. It’s been a week now and I’m currently writing this at 1am
you’re right it’s not healthy at all. How is gut working? Is mind racing all day? Are you tired all day and then just awaken at night?
 
Likes: Olski69

Olski69

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2018
70
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UK
Insomnia is the worst thing ever. I feel for you. I felt the same way for three or four months after I crashed. At that time I was itchy all over, scalp on fire, crazy anxiety, and racing mind.

I think I have hit a breakthrough with saw palmetto but it's still to early to tell. Dark circles around eyes is the best indicator of where we are at in our recovery. Dark circles under eyes correlate with where we are at in our recovery. It's mainly related to our liver health. Liver problems are keeping us from recovering.

What I am currently taking is jarrows bile acid, krill oil, calcium d glucarate, bruess juicing, and slow oxidizer diet. I am also juice fasting once a week and adding carrot juices and celery juices. Calcium d glucarate crushes estrogen but it's really good for the liver. I am going to keep experimenting with this and see how far it gets me. Even though my estrogen is being crushed right now I am feeling great, mainly from the bruess juice. Dark circles have greatly improved.

Focus on liver/gallbladder health. Bruess juice and celery juice will help with sleep. I have been lazy on juicing and buy biota bruess juice off of Amazon. You can skip the calcium d glucarate for now.
t

The weird thing is I had sorted my sleep mostly. I haven’t been able to always drift off like I used to but there have been times. This is the worst my sleep has been since crashing.

What I don’t get is the state of my flaccid dick. It’s massive compared to what it has been since crashing. Even my partner is like wtf. It’s like erect length and chubby? Sorry for the graphic description!
a

Anyway, I will focus on liver health like you have mentioned. I do eat an extremely clean diet and juice once a day anyway but I’ll try adding in celery. It’s just so strange, pine pollen tincture was initially a break through, muscles hard, pump, sex drive then things started to slide. I cycled it as you are supposed to. Anyway been off it a while now, I still get some anabolic effects but it appears to be fucking my sleep.

Never had these hot flashes at night before like I am getting so I kind of feeling like something is going on with my estrogen. I’ve had low e2 a lot before and never had these flashes so maybe it’s high? Never had this state of flaccid for so long either in the 6 years of pfs.

Anyway, nice to come here and have some support from you and everyone. People around me just don’t get it, like “why can’t you just sleep? Just have a nice warm drink before bed,” wish it was that fucking easy!
 

Olski69

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2018
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UK
you’re right it’s not healthy at all. How is gut working? Is mind racing all day? Are you tired all day and then just awaken at night?
Pretty much. I’ve always suffered with a bit of hyperactivity but never sleep issues. That was before I was ill.

It feels like I’ve just done a few lines of coke. It’s horrible. Like that natural switch is just gone completely!
g

Gut is five atm. Has been fine for some time. Took me a couple of years to get there though.
 

Goose12

Well-Known Member
Oct 6, 2017
786
926
93
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Cincinnati Ohio
t

The weird thing is I had sorted my sleep mostly. I haven’t been able to always drift off like I used to but there have been times. This is the worst my sleep has been since crashing.

What I don’t get is the state of my flaccid dick. It’s massive compared to what it has been since crashing. Even my partner is like wtf. It’s like erect length and chubby? Sorry for the graphic description!
a

Anyway, I will focus on liver health like you have mentioned. I do eat an extremely clean diet and juice once a day anyway but I’ll try adding in celery. It’s just so strange, pine pollen tincture was initially a break through, muscles hard, pump, sex drive then things started to slide. I cycled it as you are supposed to. Anyway been off it a while now, I still get some anabolic effects but it appears to be fucking my sleep.

Never had these hot flashes at night before like I am getting so I kind of feeling like something is going on with my estrogen. I’ve had low e2 a lot before and never had these flashes so maybe it’s high? Never had this state of flaccid for so long either in the 6 years of pfs.

Anyway, nice to come here and have some support from you and everyone. People around me just don’t get it, like “why can’t you just sleep? Just have a nice warm drink before bed,” wish it was that fucking easy!
I would have never understood insomnia unless I experienced it my self. I always thought insomnia was more like a bad habit.

Have you been getting better or worse over time? If worse there has to be some environmental factor going on. Do you smoke or anything similar? If your eating clean and taking the right supps things should be slowly improving.

I really believe a lot of this has to do with our liver. I have experimented with so many things and focused on hormones and general health but I think we need to focus on curing fatty liver.

Buy or make some bruess juice. You should notice improvements in two or three days. I have played around with it before and it was the same. Bruess juice is basically the electrolyte protocol rolled into one. Herbal teas are good to.

Weird about flaccid size. Never experienced that but there is no point of trying to make sense of anything because our bodies are so out of wack. Like I said in my previous post dark circles around your eyes are your best indicator.
 

Olski69

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2018
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UK
I would have never understood insomnia unless I experienced it my self. I always thought insomnia was more like a bad habit.

Have you been getting better or worse over time? If worse there has to be some environmental factor going on. Do you smoke or anything similar? If your eating clean and taking the right supps things should be slowly improving.

I really believe a lot of this has to do with our liver. I have experimented with so many things and focused on hormones and general health but I think we need to focus on curing fatty liver.

Buy or make some bruess juice. You should notice improvements in two or three days. I have played around with it before and it was the same. Bruess juice is basically the electrolyte protocol rolled into one. Herbal teas are good to.

Weird about flaccid size. Never experienced that but there is no point of trying to make sense of anything because our bodies are so out of wack. Like I said in my previous post dark circles around your eyes are your best indicator.
My sleep had improved greatly since first crashing. My sleep had been pretty stable for the past couple of years. This sleep is as bad as when i first crashed I would say, although it isn’t obviously as such of a shock and there isn’t any panic surrounding it.

This is what’s so strange for me, I’ve been pretty stable and now some weird things are going on. I know pine pollen is like a mild version of R ANDRO. Maybe I’ve crushed my estrogen? But I feel like it almost could be high. With low e2 the lack of NOs made the flaccid hand almost uncomfortable and non existent. Like you say, no point trying to make sense of it all but I’m kinda a little desperate now to get some sleep.
I don’t smoke or drink, eat only healthy food, nothing processed, minimal caffeine especially when I’m going through periods like this. Exercise regularly.

Obviously through out the years I’ve learnt that blood tests don’t mean a lot but I’ve ordered some anyway just to see if anything hormonal wise has gone way out of wack.
 

Goose12

Well-Known Member
Oct 6, 2017
786
926
93
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Cincinnati Ohio
My sleep had improved greatly since first crashing. My sleep had been pretty stable for the past couple of years. This sleep is as bad as when i first crashed I would say, although it isn’t obviously as such of a shock and there isn’t any panic surrounding it.

This is what’s so strange for me, I’ve been pretty stable and now some weird things are going on. I know pine pollen is like a mild version of R ANDRO. Maybe I’ve crushed my estrogen? But I feel like it almost could be high. With low e2 the lack of NOs made the flaccid hand almost uncomfortable and non existent. Like you say, no point trying to make sense of it all but I’m kinda a little desperate now to get some sleep.
I don’t smoke or drink, eat only healthy food, nothing processed, minimal caffeine especially when I’m going through periods like this. Exercise regularly.

Obviously through out the years I’ve learnt that blood tests don’t mean a lot but I’ve ordered some anyway just to see if anything hormonal wise has gone way out of wack.
I do think blood test can help give you a little direction. Like in my case I had high triglycerides and cholesterol, basically fatty liver. The more I focus on that the better I am doing.

It is possible to have high and low estrogen at the same time. By blocking estrogen receptors you will have more e in the blood so it will be stronger in other areas. In my case if I block e I get less emotions and labido but more fat in my chest and thighs.

Pine pollen was one of the few things I responded positive to. I was basically a non responder to most things. Could be you drop your potassium by taking pine pollen and that's why you are responding poorly to it now. Potassium chloride itself makes me feel better but I like getting it from juice rather than supplementing it.

Sounds like you're living a healthy lifestyle. Make sure you are using natural body washes and deodorant. I also think drinking filtered water helps out a lot.
 
Likes: Olski69

Olski69

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2018
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UK
I do think blood test can help give you a little direction. Like in my case I had high triglycerides and cholesterol, basically fatty liver. The more I focus on that the better I am doing.

It is possible to have high and low estrogen at the same time. By blocking estrogen receptors you will have more e in the blood so it will be stronger in other areas. In my case if I block e I get less emotions and labido but more fat in my chest and thighs.

Pine pollen was one of the few things I responded positive to. I was basically a non responder to most things. Could be you drop your potassium by taking pine pollen and that's why you are responding poorly to it now. Potassium chloride itself makes me feel better but I like getting it from juice rather than supplementing it.

Sounds like you're living a healthy lifestyle. Make sure you are using natural body washes and deodorant. I also think drinking filtered water helps out a lot.
I
I responded positively to pine pollen tincture initially too. I kept ploughing through when the effects seemed to dissipate as I know symptoms aren’t necessarily a match of the what’s happening on a healing level.

That’s when I started to get the sleep issues, very similar to what I went through on my initial crash which is why I believe it could be something to do with estrogen. Whether it’s high or low in the blood or something going on at a receptor level. Bloods weren’t that expensive so I decided to test anyway.

Managed to get a bit of sleep last night, now just feeling tired all the time which is what happens after I have these periods of insomnia. Hoping to be on the mend.
still enormous bags under my eyes.
Look like a panda haha you’ve got to laugh!

Oh and drinking filtered water for the last few years! Avoiding plastics etc. Also drink juices daily however I do include fruits, may just try vegetables.
 

Olski69

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2018
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UK
So digging through some older files I have found my genetic methylation panel from genetic genie.

Please find attached.

Apparently I have a homozygous mutation of MTR A2756G which is extremely rare. (<1% of CEU population).

I also have a homozygous mutation of the MAO-A R297R gene which is involved in breaking down neurotransmitters. Maybe this is why my sleep is so shit.
 

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