Saw Palmetto sufferer Log *Hair Test included

Olski69

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May 11, 2018
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#1
Hello all to the forum! I have previously been on ray peat plus other boards under a different username. I was not very active mind!

There seems to be a real comradery amongst this forum and people seem to really help each other out. It feels like a much more positive place to be! Hence why I am here!

Brief of story:

Noticed very minor receeding plus a lot of fatigue at the age of 24. I had a physical job so put it down to that! Found some Wellman male vitamin pills and thought they would help the fatigue and boost hair growth. I didn't really notice much improvement from them but maybe a bit more energy occasionally. Upon reading on the back I came across an ingredient, 'Saw Palmetto' and decided to google. The first things you read about Saw Palmetto on Google are generally positive. Boosts male libido, helps hair growth. Being young and naive, I thought great, win win right? I also had read that zinc was 'great' for males so began taking a zinc supplement too.

Once the Wellman pills had finished, I bought some Swansons Saw Palmetto extract pills. I took one pill! I believe it was 320mg. The next morning I awoke to hell. Brain Fog, panic attacks, cold lifeless penis, inability to get an erection, no libido and I am sure you are all aware of the rest.

I could not believe this was happening, I went from being the most virile man on earth to pretty much castrated over night.

Anyway. I have had most tests you can think of. Here is what I have tried. It has been nearly 4 years now!

  • Initially upon crashing had raised prolactin. MRI for pit tumour. None found. Trialled cabergoline through Endocrinologist. Thought this was the cure! Brought back spontaneous erections. (note, this is the only thing that has ever brought back spontaneous erections, definitely a dopamine issue) Did not last for more than 2 weeks. Body adapted? Prolactin is now within range.
  • Gut issues became bad, I have family history of autoimmune gut issues. Started eating extremely healthy. Cut out alcohol and all gluten. Still have to this day. Blood test confirmed possible celiac disease before cutting out gluten. I do not eat anything processed at all! Only fresh and usually organic.
  • I had awful insomnia, I mean the worst. The longest time I went without sleep was probably a week. I was very unwell. It was like this off and on for 3 years. I tried all natural remedies including magnesium and glycine. These helped initially then seemed to eventually make the insomnia worse. What appears to have fixed my ability to sleep was LDN (low dose naltrexone). I trialled this for 3 months. It initally helped erections but then I felt like in the long term it was damaging them and libido. I have been off LDN for a month now and still find it easier to enter sleep. How ever, I wake up usually with muscle pain and feeling exhausted. Morning wood comes and goes as well as nocturnals but they are not as strong as before.
  • Upon crashing my SHBG was 30 nmol/l. Over the years it has raised. It raised to between 43-55 nmol/l and stayed that way for a while. I got to the point where I had given it my all with diet and exercise (could not do much as I was so fatigued and over doing it made sleep worse) That I felt TRT was maybe the route to go as my E2 was pitifully low and so was my free T. I trialled HCG first, made some improvements in erections and libido. Still were not very strong. Then added Testosterone enanthate. First day of shot and morning after I felt great. Good morning wood, strong, muscles looked how they used to, then it tapered off again. I feel like I have some sort of receptor issue! I discontinued TRT as I was noticing some mild hair loss plus some rage and panic attacks. I monitored E2 and my levels through out! It was not the answer to fixing me although it helped. I do not want to inject myself for the rest of my life unless I really have too!

My levels all came back to normal other than my E2 remaining low again. I have noticed that when my E2 is low, libido is gone completely, flaccid hang is shirvelled and uncomfortable and I have zero brain dick connection. My SHBG kept rising and is now 87 nmol/l!!!!! I am suffering much worse than when I first crashed with erections and feel this is why. What I cannot understand is why I have low E2 but high SHBG. All I can find through research is raised E2 causes high SHBG not low!


Anyway, Ive spent thousands on tests and have been checked for every autoimmune and disease the NHS seem to have to offer!

  • Symptoms I am dealing with today:
  • Loss of erections.
  • Fatigue
  • Anhedonia
  • Leg cramps possibly RLS. I notice this gets worse with certain things I eat?
  • Muscle weakness. (working on it by exercise)

I have just had hair test and recent blood work. My hair Iron is crazy high yet my blood levels do not seem to be? I have read Iron can raise SHBG in the liver?

My thoughts are that maybe the supplemental Zinc I was taking messed with my copper levels? I have had neutropenia for 4 years now and the DRs don't know why! I am finding out that copper deficiency can cause this. It also states on my hair test that high Iron can be from low copper? I am by no means an expert on the hair mineral test and I am still trying to learn from this forum!

I have started the CdsNuts protocol with herb rotation as well as adding in magnesium and B vitamins daily. Specifically P5P as the hair test recommends me too. I did actually have low B6 in a blood test a year or so too. P5P seems to help energy and fog as well as brain penis connection?

I should add that I am 6ft 4 and very lean. I have never suffered with body weight. I am fairly toned and muscular but have lost some muscle whilst being so unwell.

I eat healthy, do not drink, exercise in the morning, take cold showers every morning. Trying to beat this!

Any advice would be much appreciated. Sorry for the long post but I felt it would be advantageous to state my story! Hope I haven't missed anything.

Thanks again, Olski.
 

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Goose12

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Oct 6, 2017
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#2
It's great to see you post your hair test @Olski69 olski

It's nice to see another saw palmetto suffer post hair tests. It's interesting see we both have high iron. I don't think I have noticed anyone with pfs have iron on the high end of there hair test. Our ratios are also very similar, the biggest difference is my calcium is mostly in range.

Here is my hair test ratios, it's interesting compare.
 

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Goose12

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Oct 6, 2017
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#3
I recommend you jump on the recommended supps from tei. I think you can do cd's protocol with them. With cycling I don't imagine either protocol would interfere with each other. I am feeling pretty good on tei.

I never did any blood tests but it does feel like the more i increase estrogen the better my labido is, something cd's herbs do.

I have read that high iron pushes zinc, copper, and manganese out of the body. All of these minerals compete for space and if one becomes high it doesn't allow the others to work. After reading about high iron it explained a lot of my symptoms.
 
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Olski69

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May 11, 2018
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#4
Did you buy your supps from them?

I was unsure about taking the adrenal glandular's?

I have normal Iron and Ferritin in blood but high Iron in hair? Can this mean high Iron despite the bloods?

I am looking into getting R Andro and doing some cycles. Also looking at getting some more herbs. One thing thats strange for me, Pine pollen powder makes me feel like shit. Just makes me so so tired and want to lie down and not move all day. A lot of fog. Anyone else experienced this?
 

Goose12

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Oct 6, 2017
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#5
Did you buy your supps from them?

I was unsure about taking the adrenal glandular's?

I have normal Iron and Ferritin in blood but high Iron in hair? Can this mean high Iron despite the bloods?

I am looking into getting R Andro and doing some cycles. Also looking at getting some more herbs. One thing thats strange for me, Pine pollen powder makes me feel like shit. Just makes me so so tired and want to lie down and not move all day. A lot of fog. Anyone else experienced this?
Yes, I bought the supps from tei.

There is nothing to worry about taking glandulars. If I remember right, arl practitioner Catherine confirmed that the glandulars do not contain hormones, just minerals and aminos.

If I understand right hair is more accurate than blood because as the hair is forming minerals in the blood get absorbed into the hair. An inch and a half of hair gives you a picture of what's been circulating in your blood for 3 months. Where a blood test only shows you what's going at that the time the sample was taking.

Pine pollen never bothered me but others have reported negative sides from it.
 

Olski69

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May 11, 2018
57
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#6
Thanks so much for your advice.

I am going to order some of the glandular's but seem to already have a lot of the list of things they recommend already in my cupboard! Vit E, magnesium, B6 etc.

Right now I am waking every morning and having a cold shower, take my supps plus herb of the day on an empty stomach . Do some sit ups and press ups and then have breakfast.
Trying to push my body the right way!

From what I understand, SHBG can be raised due to progestins. Would something like ELLA or RU486 be helpful in my situation with SHBG? I have had progesterone tested via blood a couple of times and it was at the top of the normal range.

One thing I will add. My erections are terrible at the moment. My sensitivity since this all happened isnt good either. I find that P5P helps a little. When I trialled HCG a while back the first couple of days I had great sensitivity again. Then it tapered off. When stopping the HCG, a week after my last shot my sensitivity returned then disappeared again. Not sure what mechanism is causing this but I notice when my sensitivity is better my ejaculation is better. Basically it shoots like it used too!

@Helen I am new to this forum and have tired to study a lot of your posts as you seem to be extremely knowledgable especially regarding the hair tests. I appreciate you are exceptionally busy and get a lot of people asking for help but it would mean so much to me if you could glance over my test and see if there is anything that jumps out at you? Anything to add?
 

Olski69

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May 11, 2018
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#7
Okay, so an update on things.

I had another hair test done. My high Iron and calcium has come down a bit. I am now a SLOW 2.

Began TEI recommended supps and felt substantially better in energy and mood for the first few weeks. Sensitivity was up and I also had a better hang, however, a few weeks in it was like the supps became too much for me. I began getting terrible insomnia again and the inability to fall asleep. I would say this has been one of my biggest complaints in my PFS state. I backed off of them for a few days and continued but at a lower dose. I have more energy but do not feel any better in other ways.

The strange thing for me that a few years after crashing my sexual stuff was no where near as bad as it is now but my mental symptoms are better. It is like I cannot have both? My SHBG started in the 30's and has maxed out at 90 nmol/l. It has come down a little but I think this is thanks to Tongkat Ali but I have no relief of symptoms. It was 58 last time I checked.

I have R andro on hand to try. Would R Andro have any affect on SHBG? I have tried to google this but have not found much. I am not sure if this is going to help me as I have trialled Pine Pollen and it seems to make my restless legs and cramping so much worse. I think this is due to Potassium tanking? Strange thing is on my bloods Potassium is fine.

I have wondered if NAC would help with the SHBG? Maybe something is irritating my liver? I also pondered about VAR?

I am trying to learn all this as I go! Any input would be appreciated.
 

Goose12

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Oct 6, 2017
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#8
Are takin tei supps or are you trying to replicate them? Just asking to be sure. How long have you been on tei?

You really won't know where your at until you have been of tei for at leat 2 weeks. It might seem weird but after you run tei multiple cycles you will welcome the negative sides. It means it's working and a higher baseline is coming after tei ( it's a rollet coaster, like cdnuts says).

My SHBG is also on the high side, 52. I have only measured it once.

Tongkat Ali is also one of my favorite supps. It was inconsistent but I would have some really good days on it.

R andro and ru helped me it some ways but unbalanced me in others. I would just stay on tei. This is all about balancing and detoxing, and I think our livers are a huge factor in why we got into this mess. Have you ever had your liver enzymes checked? Coffee enemas are good for the liver. I haven't tried it myself because I haven't figured out how to explain it to the family lol.
 

joekool

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Oct 4, 2017
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#9
I was a big proponent of r Andro and I still believe in it’s dht qualities and helpful for emergency hormone help to try to ease concerns but long term, you want to work on rebuilding your sensitivity to that hormone and my current trials show that trying to cut back or even block said hormones would trigger the body to up regulate its receptors for a more permanent fix.
 
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Boris

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Oct 3, 2017
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#10
A few weeks is not enough you haven't even don't much yet, I would run at least for 6 months. Like @Goose12 said you will be on a rollercoaster and you won't really know how much it's helping you until you cease it and then evaluate baseline. Over time you will feel ups and downs but slowly getting better and better. If you feel that you are detoxing go in the sauna it will help
 
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bruschi11

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Oct 3, 2017
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#11
I like idea of running it a couple weeks to a month then stopping for a couple weeks to a month.

That is for guys who get bad symptoms after a couple weeks like you and me @Olski69 .

I think our community can find ways to make TEI more effective for a wider range of people. For instance , @Raincoast who recovered only used his ARL supplements EOD to E3D.

I love idea of TEI and ARL, but when it causes major digestion and fatigue/depression issues, some people need to just back off for a few weeks and/or try to emulate someone like Raincoast. Or maybe just take once a day like you did @Boris .

I’ll be going back to TEI later this year most likely if need be. But I’ll likely experiment with it to fit my body chemistry and reactions to it.

I think exercise and digestion are major keys to recovery and if you can’t do these, then you might be in trouble.
 
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Olski69

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2018
57
22
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#12
Are takin tei supps or are you trying to replicate them? Just asking to be sure. How long have you been on tei?

You really won't know where your at until you have been of tei for at leat 2 weeks. It might seem weird but after you run tei multiple cycles you will welcome the negative sides. It means it's working and a higher baseline is coming after tei ( it's a rollet coaster, like cdnuts says).

My SHBG is also on the high side, 52. I have only measured it once.

Tongkat Ali is also one of my favorite supps. It was inconsistent but I would have some really good days on it.

R andro and ru helped me it some ways but unbalanced me in others. I would just stay on tei. This is all about balancing and detoxing, and I think our livers are a huge factor in why we got into this mess. Have you ever had your liver enzymes checked? Coffee enemas are good for the liver. I haven't tried it myself because I haven't figured out how to explain it to the family lol.

I bought all of their supps from them and went with it exactly as they stated. I have continued with the programme but have just halved the dosages as I have two young kids who are awake in the nights and I just need to make sure I can get all the sleep I can get. The first couple of years after I crashed I went weeks without sleep which was torture.

I really want to balance myself. I have low WBC's and have been tested for every Virus or disease in the book but they cant find anything wrong with me. Kind of wished they would!

What I am struggling with currently is zero blood flow down below. Zero erections and I am concerned about tissue damage. It is just so hard to judge what is going on!
 

Olski69

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2018
57
22
8
30
UK
#13
I like idea of running it a couple weeks to a month then stopping for a couple weeks to a month.

That is for guys who get bad symptoms after a couple weeks like you and me @Olski69 .

I think our community can find ways to make TEI more effective for a wider range of people. For instance , @Raincoast who recovered only used his ARL supplements EOD to E3D.

I love idea of TEI and ARL, but when it causes major digestion and fatigue/depression issues, some people need to just back off for a few weeks and/or try to emulate someone like Raincoast. Or maybe just take once a day like you did @Boris .

I’ll be going back to TEI later this year most likely if need be. But I’ll likely experiment with it to fit my body chemistry and reactions to it.

I think exercise and digestion are major keys to recovery and if you can’t do these, then you might be in trouble.

I am trying to do as you mentioned. I am sort of listening to my body when the insomnia returns and backing off a little till it settles then slowly bringing back up to full dosage! I could just battle through but I feel so incredibly awful not sleeping for days! I feel like it sets me back!

I try to exercise what I can but if I over do it in the slightest I get terrible insomnia. I just run on adrenaline. I have had lots of saliva cortisol tests + blood tests in the past and for the last few years they have been normal.

Would you think that VAR or RU486/ella would help me in this regard? When I crashed I had so much inflammation, prostate, heart, guts, joints and not so long ago I had several episodes of uveitis which is inflammation of the eye. They thought I had autoimmune issues as my father has Ulcerative colitis and this is common with that. Turns out I dont but my 24&me results showed I was the carrier for Celiacs/Ulcerative colitis hence why I decided to go gluten free for the long run!

I am wondering whether my receptors have become desensitized from all the stress in my life. Before crashing I suffered an assault! I read studies on RU486 and Gulf War veterans. Apparently it helped them!
 

joekool

Moderator
Oct 4, 2017
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#14
Quick question, serious , are your testicles regularly tight and pulled up like you’ve been swimming in cold water all day?
 

Olski69

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May 11, 2018
57
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#15
Quick question, serious , are your testicles regularly tight and pulled up like you’ve been swimming in cold water all day?

They were initially but thats not the case anymore. They are loose most of the time but not in a nice way! How are you feeling now then?
 

bruschi11

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#16
I am trying to do as you mentioned. I am sort of listening to my body when the insomnia returns and backing off a little till it settles then slowly bringing back up to full dosage! I could just battle through but I feel so incredibly awful not sleeping for days! I feel like it sets me back!

I try to exercise what I can but if I over do it in the slightest I get terrible insomnia. I just run on adrenaline. I have had lots of saliva cortisol tests + blood tests in the past and for the last few years they have been normal.

Would you think that VAR or RU486/ella would help me in this regard? When I crashed I had so much inflammation, prostate, heart, guts, joints and not so long ago I had several episodes of uveitis which is inflammation of the eye. They thought I had autoimmune issues as my father has Ulcerative colitis and this is common with that. Turns out I dont but my 24&me results showed I was the carrier for Celiacs/Ulcerative colitis hence why I decided to go gluten free for the long run!

I am wondering whether my receptors have become desensitized from all the stress in my life. Before crashing I suffered an assault! I read studies on RU486 and Gulf War veterans. Apparently it helped them!
Wow gulf war veterans had what I had- mycoplasma infection supposedl. RU helped me my first run when I was healthy post fast. But when health slipped after ski injury it set me back.

Honestly can you afford do a water or juice fast? With your symptoms just think it would be best thing. Let your system strengthen so it can handle TEI.

What’s happening is your body is killing bacteria and viruses while removing toxiciities. While that’s awesome and all, the organs need to be strong to handle this and some of us just aren’t there yet. Hence your organs are having hard time with detox and chemicals are just hitting your brain in tough way.
 
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RebelWithACause

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Jan 20, 2018
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#17
I did not feel good on TEI but I slept very well. Better than normal.

You have to push through. I eventually got used to feeling anxiety and depression and this made it disappear kind of. I no longer reacted to the anxiety and depression. In the beginning it hit me like a train. Then it got better because I got used to it. I also took a lot of rest and took naps when I felt like it in the weekend. Take it easy on yourself if you can.

You have kids so it is harder to get more rest. Maybe take a short nap daily at a time you can do it.

I think it is better to push through then to stop every time it gets bad. That is my opinion. Just got to accept you will not function at 100% for 2-3 months. You get used to feeling like that and you can do everything normally. I still did everything I normally do.

I think this road is worth it but it can be tough from time to time.

BTW I also got assaulted by someone who wanted to kill me with a knife. This was while on finasteride. 1 month later I crashed. Quitting finasteride made it even worse. I quit finasteride 2 months later. I read somewhere low allopregnenolone lowers your ability to deal with stress. Or it is because you have no functioning cortisol.
 
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Olski69

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May 11, 2018
57
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#18
Wow gulf war veterans had what I had- mycoplasma infection supposedl. RU helped me my first run when I was healthy post fast. But when health slipped after ski injury it set me back.

Honestly can you afford do a water or juice fast? With your symptoms just think it would be best thing. Let your system strengthen so it can handle TEI.

What’s happening is your body is killing bacteria and viruses while removing toxiciities. While that’s awesome and all, the organs need to be strong to handle this and some of us just aren’t there yet. Hence your organs are having hard time with detox and chemicals are just hitting your brain in tough way.
Not sure if I mentioned in my log previously but before I did this round of TEI I did a 7 day juice fast. After a few days of refeeding a began TEI.
I could have gone longer with the fast but I am skinny to begin with and I was starting to look very gaunt. I have lost weight from PFS all ready.

I have also bought myself an infrared sauna which I did a lot leading up to the fast! It’s worth adding that for the last 3 years I have had an extremely healthy diet with nothing processed or artificial, no gluten and I limit dairy a lot.

Trying to do everything I can to hit this! I don’t feel as toxic as I was but I think that having a low wbc maybe makes it harder for me to fight things than others.
 

RebelWithACause

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RebelWithACause

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#19
Not sure if I mentioned in my log previously but before I did this round of TEI I did a 7 day juice fast. After a few days of refeeding a began TEI.
I could have gone longer with the fast but I am skinny to begin with and I was starting to look very gaunt. I have lost weight from PFS all ready.

I have also bought myself an infrared sauna which I did a lot leading up to the fast! It’s worth adding that for the last 3 years I have had an extremely healthy diet with nothing processed or artificial, no gluten and I limit dairy a lot.

Trying to do everything I can to hit this! I don’t feel as toxic as I was but I think that having a low wbc maybe makes it harder for me to fight things than others.
Yea you are slow oxidizer so dairy is not good for that.

Just do TEI. Goose is perfect example he is Post Saw Palmetto and he is doing much better. You have to push through the hard moments IMO. Or you can take a break like bruschi says. I would just push through unless your digestion is complete and utter shit.
 
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Olski69

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May 11, 2018
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#20
Yea you are slow oxidizer so dairy is not good for that.

Just do TEI. Goose is perfect example he is Post Saw Palmetto and he is doing much better. You have to push through the hard moments IMO. Or you can take a break like bruschi says. I would just push through unless your digestion is complete and utter shit.
Luckily my digestion is pretty good and regular now. Especially with the addition of HCL! I’ll try and push through it all and keep going.

I’ve ordered some NAC to see if it can help my liver just in case the raised SHBG is due to something irritating it. I have seen others mentioning cysteine and histidine.
Is cysteine better than NAC or is it the same thing?