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Reverse

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#1
*IMPORTANT* UPDATE Dec 15, 2018:
Vitamin B2, B6, D and possibly B1 are crucial to maintain bone mass during PFS. B2 and B6 at 100 mg every 12 hrs. are the only things that STOPPED BONE PAIN AND LOSS. I conclude with strong belief that these are essential to bone metabolism. If you just have early signs or mild pfs, I STRONGLY ADVISE to get on B2 and B6 before your bones are compromised. For me it started with slight testicular discomfort, then extreme fatigue, then tinnitus...months later it was loss of libido, less semen, etc...and within a year I started experiencing facial discomfort, face pressure, numbness in face, tingly fingers and hands, finger pain. Until 2 years in I wake up and see woman sized hands and wrists and less chin and jaw mass, shrunken elbows and ankles, shrunken shoulders and collar bone, shrunken teeth etc....TAKE B2 and B6 NOW and daily ... bone loss happens more often than what's posted in any forum. save yourself the trouble and trauma.


Here at another forum fighting pfs...

Ive been in the struggle for about 2 years now dealing with almost every symptom known.

Healthy guy prior to this.
Natural athletic build, strong motivation in life, no drugs or medications and no illness in the family.

What I've tried:

Pretty much followed the herb/diet/exercise regimen
for about 4 months now. I've had a few times of relief from some symptoms but nothing sticks for more than a few days.

My thoughts:

I think an herbal regimen could yield resuslts.
However I've had my doubts as to how much of that recovery is permanent, especially if one stops the routine.

One thing that wasn't clearly addressed on another forum is the longevity of that recovery program except from maybe 2 people that claim the recovery is 100%.
And strangely a few others that followed similar methods and recovered have dissappeared from forums.

But they only say they stopped taking herbs for a few months at a time. This bugs me because I've read that herbal effects can last up to 6 months in the body before having to cycle again.

Also I haven't seen any information showing that herbs help the progesterone receptors. Also there are no studies showing that herbs bring about a permanent up regulation of testosterone. Then again, I do realize that most research didnt study herbal effects for more than a period of 6 months, so I may be wrong in my doubts.

Maybe these extended herb cycles over 2-3 years reverse the downregulation permanently. I don't think such a study has been done.

What I'll do:

I'm not sure...I'm wondering what approach you guys think is best. So far I haven't experienced negative sides from any herbs but neither have I gotten much results.

I'm open minded to try RU if I knew the right way to take it.

It's great this place exists, other forums are either all negative or don't allow for new ideas.

Any insight is welcome
I hope we all reach the light at the end very soon!
 
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Oct 3, 2017
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#2
Reverse post_id=1735 time=1508286287 user_id=120 said:
Here at another forum fighting pfs...

Ive been in the struggle for about 2 years now dealing with almost every symptom known.

Healthy guy prior to this.
Natural athletic build, strong motivation in life, no drugs or medications and no illness in the family.

What I've tried:

Pretty much followed the herb/diet/exercise regimen
for about 4 months now. I've had a few times of relief from some symptoms but nothing sticks for more than a few days.

My thoughts:

I think that regimen could yield resuslts.
However I've had my doubts as to how much of that recovery is permanent, especially if one stops the routine.

One thing that wasn't clearly addressed on another forum is the longevity of that recovery program except from maybe 2 people that claim the recovery is 100%.
And strangely a few others that followed similar methods and recovered have dissappeared from forums.

But they only say they stopped taking herbs for a few months at a time. This bugs me because I've read that herbal effects can last up to 6 months in the body before having to cycle again.

Also I haven't seen any information showing that herbs help the progesterone receptors. Also there is no studies showing that herbs bring about a permanent up regulation of testosterone. Then again, I do realize that most research didnt study herbal effects for more than a period of 6 months, so I may be wrong in my doubts.

Maybe these extended cycles over 2-3 years reverse the downregulation permanently. I don't think such a study has been done.

What I'll do:

I'm not sure...I'm wondering what approach you guys think is best. So far I haven't experienced negative sides from any herbs but neither have I gotten much results.

I'm open minded to try out RU if I knew what's the right way to take it.

It's great this place exists, other forums are either all negative or don't allow for new ideas.

Any insight is welcome
I hope we can all reach the light at the end very soon!
Glad ya made it this forum, bud!
Right now we have come to the common consensus that directly forusing on testosterone or dht or especially 5 alpha reductase is not the answer as this is a progesterone/ progesterone receptor issue with possible alkalosis issues due to this as well so mineral balance can be of an issue too.

Right now we are in "phase 2" ru trials with 2 members who are about done with a short 3 day ru cycle as we speak. We don't know the best way to take it yet but it's leaning towards shorter cycles. Right now we are waiting to see if they snap back.

At the moment I'm on a 400mg randro dose and 1 1/2 weeks into taking 18g of inositol too. I also dosed androsterone liquid 3mg this morning too. It's the same thing as randro tho so basically I took a few mg more orally which is more potent since it bypasses liver metabolism. Been feeling good and libido is decent.

Also nursing a lump on my right pec with some dht cream so I'm gunna be 2 days into that when I apply some tonight too.

Several ppl have been cured from randro and androhard which are said to both have the same active compound androsterone.

So if you're on the fence about ru486 you could consider Randro or androsterone! Links for both are in the source talk thread
 

Goose12

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Oct 6, 2017
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Cincinnati Ohio
#3
In my experience the herbs were really helpful in my recovery, but it took me at least a week to notice any slight benefits from them. I would also double up on my herb cycle and take pine pollen, goji Berries, shilajit, and royal jelly daily. I feel like the herbs hit on so many different points that they slowly balance your hormones. I also think the r Andro is a big part of and it gives you a break from the herbs.

I also played around with cycling muscle gelz androhard with the herbs, once a week. I noticed some decent benefits from it but stopped so I could run CD protocol correctly.

I have been off the herbs for two months. One to run r Andro and another to run ru and I feel like the benefits from the herbs have stuck. It feels permanent to me especially since it's been a lot of work to get to this point.
 
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Walker

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Oct 7, 2017
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Mountain Brook, AL
#4
Goose12 post_id=1750 time=1508292179 user_id=106 said:
In my experience the herbs were really helpful in my recovery, but it took me at least a week to notice any slight benefits from them. I would also double up on my herb cycle and take pine pollen, goji Berries, shilajit, and royal jelly daily. I feel like the herbs hit on so many different points that they slowly balance your hormones. I also think the r Andro is a big part of and it gives you a break from the herbs.

I also played around with cycling muscle gelz androhard with the herbs, once a week. I noticed some decent benefits from it but stopped so I could run CD protocol correctly.

I have been off the herbs for two months. One to run r Andro and another to run ru and I feel like the benefits from the herbs have stuck. It feels permanent to me especially since it's been a lot of work to get to this point.
It is permanent. I had twisted dick and loss of girth and that resolved itself. The fact that people think that herbs are the only thing keeping it from shrinking again and twisting back is mind-blowing to me. There's lots of routes to recovery I believe, so we shouldn't be quick to judge. Plus the OP only did it for four months. Really need six to a year at the minimum if you're going the natural route. You should be fine to be off for as long as you need to be to try the RU486 route.
 
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Boris

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Staff member
Oct 3, 2017
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#5
Herbs are the safest and easiest way to go if you have some extra money laying around and you don't know where to start. I honestly don't think any of them can make you worse especially when you are only taking it once every 14-22 days or so.

A few of them I didn't respond that well too (who knows could of been a good thing considering what we know now) but majority of them I liked (this was like a year ago). I personally think the cycling part is key regardless of what else is going on, not only is it safer that way but more effective long term towards recovery.
 

jacknap

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Oct 4, 2017
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#6
the only one that makes me feel like shit is maca but i have a gelatanized one with all 3 colours black/red/yellow.

i actually go hard on herb rotation and got all the herbs and dose them every 7 days. So I do 3+ a day. I figure if herbs are key to recovery doing it this way will speed up recovery faster... and I might be right cuz so far I'm recovering quite quickly. Though the final 20-25% seem to be the most stubborn and my libido / erections are lagging the most.
 

Snow1

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Oct 4, 2017
198
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#7
Herbs are good but personally I wouldn't rely on them for a 100% recovery for PFS. I've held that hope for the last 8 years cycling herbs left right and centre, and although I've improved over the years it's taken that long to go from rock bottom to average.

Bring on RU and Ella I say!
 

Boris

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Oct 3, 2017
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#8
Snow1 post_id=2063 time=1508473771 user_id=68 said:
Herbs are good but personally I wouldn't rely on them for a 100% recovery for PFS. I've held that hope for the last 8 years cycling herbs left right and centre, and although I've improved over the years it's taken that long to go from rock bottom to average.

Bring on RU and Ella I say!
I agree! :D
 

Snell1234

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Oct 3, 2017
112
0
0
#9
Snow1 post_id=2063 time=1508473771 user_id=68 said:
Herbs are good but personally I wouldn't rely on them for a 100% recovery for PFS. I've held that hope for the last 8 years cycling herbs left right and centre, and although I've improved over the years it's taken that long to go from rock bottom to average.

Bring on RU and Ella I say!
What herbs did you use?
 

Reverse

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#10
Thanks for all the input!

I will continue the herbs rotation for another 3 months and take it from there. It's possible I need more time with them idk.

I'll try taking pine pollen and tribulus more often, about every 10 days.

I think you guys have mentioned fasting when taking RU.
How do you guys fast? Is it a 1 or 2 days fast prior to taking RU? Or you fast on the days you take RU? Is it a water fast or you drink juice too?

And how do you break the fast?

I'm thinking of applying this fasting method when I take herbs to see if it helps. Thanks guys.
I really appreciate the feedback!
 

Reverse

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#11
Question for everyone fighting pfs or recovered:

Does anyone have loss in bone mass?

It looks like my ankles, wrists and knuckles bones are not as prominent anymore.

The weird thing is I'm still the same height, my wingspan (arm length shoulder to shoulder) is still the same, and my foot size is still the same. so what is going on?

Did anyone notice this issue and improve?
any feedback is appreciated thanks guys.
 

Reverse

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#12
I've been making observations, taking notes and researching in my spare time.

I've reached several conclusions that I'm 90% certain of.

I'll premise my case by stating that I used evolutionary theory/fact, epigenetics, nutrition and personal observations of dietary customs to reach the following statements.

1. "PFS" isn't unique, it's a 5 AR deprived body chemistry that is found in several races, most commonly in Asian and Native Ameripopulations.

2. These populations have consistent 5 AR inhibition from the time they are conceived and all throughout their lives. The men, women and children in these populations ingest high amounts of 5ar inhibitors through foods and herbs. Licorice Root and several tea types being among them. Also, asian peoples keep a testosterone suppressed chemistry thru eating soy daily. Observe the physiology, body types, facial structures, bone mass, athletic performance and personalities of these groups and you find similarities.

I'll continue on this further when I can...
I was hesitant to post this because I'm sure some won't like to hear this, others will ridicule me....

If you're under 30 yrs old and dealing with "PFS" you better grind to recovery today and not tomorrow. The body is more able to when under 30 yrs old.

I'll continue later. Peace.
 
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Reverse

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#13
Hey guys, I've been having pain when sneezing lately in my ribs/chest cavity and more recently in upper neck/spine.

It's only painful during sneezing. Anyone else experience this? Is this nerve issues due to nervous system unbalance in pfs or spinal disc issue? Did you guys recover this?
 

Reverse

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#14
Why do I have so much fatigue? I have a tired feeling very often through out the day.

One example of this is, I'll be browsing thru hack stasis and I'll randomly fall asleep. Then i wake up a minute later or less and then realize I just fell asleep.


This was the first symptom I had before major crash. Does this go away?
 
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MNK99

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#15
-It definitely can go away with god-like discipline and work ethic.
-I was deathly tired. Tired isn't a fair term. It was extreme depression and extreme lethargy and like 20-30 other things, probably more that I can't see/ so I don't know about.
-I sleep too little and appear insomnia-ridden once again. But, I've found ways around that. I use the insomnia when there's more work to be done.
-I have to keep electronics far away bc, it takes like theanine, plus mmj, plus 1-2 other things, or complete exhaustion to sleep -- which is my baseline. So yes, it can go away.
-I'm certain it did for many.
-Also, I've sneezed and coughed and whatever else many many times with pain throughout 20+ years. Sneezing a lot more now lately, but it's summer, maybe it's pfs-changing, but I barely notice it.
-I have way more fatigue on prohormone cycles/ pct... and I look fwd to my normal energy levels which have gone up like 20x or incalculable amounts.
-I take em on pct, but herbs make me sick feeling for an hour or so, but* also stronger... and shedding, and such. Also I just megadose several with coffee/protein,spinach.
-To an older question. I used ella then ru... seperately and then have microdosed both along PCT or just after it, and it's subtle but positive changes to length and e.q. are there.
-If I keep nofap up, sex drive and sensation is much better. Maybe it's "mental", but still. Also prolactin is effected, but just resensitizing and fixing dopaminergic system helps too.
 
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Reverse

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#16
@Helen I'm getting started on a protocol...
I'll do the electrolytes as you suggested for PFS, especially because B2 and B6 vitamins is the only things that helped me the most so far.

My understanding is that I need to take B1 and B2 vitamins correct? Should I also be taking HCL?

Also, as this will increase oxygen flow in my cells, my guess is I will see my veins showing again correct and also jump start all hormone production to normal???

Another question...in general aside from pfs cases...do you think this kind of protocol will increase NO production in any person out there? Let's say for example, a person who never has had veins showing but is lifting now and wants that veins look, would this protocol achieve that for them?
 
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Helen

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Oct 5, 2017
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#17
@Helen I'm getting started on a protocol...
I'll do the electrolytes as you suggested for PFS, especially because B2 and B6 vitamins is the only things that helped me the most so far.

My understanding is that I need to take B1 and B2 vitamins correct? Should I also be taking HCL?

Also, as this will increase oxygen flow in my cells, my guess is I will see my veins showing again correct and also jump start all hormone production to normal???

Another question...in general aside from pfs cases...do you think this kind of protocol will increase NO production in any person out there? Let's say for example, a person who never has had veins showing but is lifting now and wants that veins look, would this protocol achieve that for them?
electrolyte protocol))) read it. please
 
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Reverse

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#18
So just wanted to state that I'm certain I'll recover with B vitamins/NO increase.
Don't know if results will stay later if I stop taking the supplements.

Need to get better asap. My family has been asking when I will make babies...I could make them now but, I prefer to be at my healthiest and Recovered before creating clones of myself.

Maybe it doesn't make a difference but I rather do the work to make a better specimen. This is part of the reason for my evolution, genetics, diet thread.

I have many thoughts, used to have incredible strength and dopamine/serotonin flow. Literally never needed drugs. Accomplished so much and was so care free...Family thinks I'm ok and only gained a few pounds...they don't get it lol

Too many thoughts...need to recover asap
 

Goose12

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Oct 6, 2017
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Cincinnati Ohio
#19
So just wanted to state that I'm certain I'll recover with B vitamins/NO increase.
Don't know if results will stay later if I stop taking the supplements.

Need to get better asap. My family has been asking when I will make babies...I could make them now but, I prefer to be at my healthiest and Recovered before creating clones of myself.

Maybe it doesn't make a difference but I rather do the work to make a better specimen. This is part of the reason for my evolution, genetics, diet thread.

I have many thoughts, used to have incredible strength and dopamine/serotonin flow. Literally never needed drugs. Accomplished so much and was so care free...Family thinks I'm ok and only gained a few pounds...they don't get it lol

Too many thoughts...need to recover asap
The best thing for you to do would be tei or arl. More than likely that will be the fastest way for you to recover. For the most part it is the same as the electrolyte protocol but it is based of your hair test results.

I recommend tei and to retest every two months and to take a week or two break between testing or if detox symptoms get to be to much to handle.

I am having some pretty good results on it. I am having good days and bad days but am always hitting new highs.