PSSD vs PFS

Helen

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Oct 5, 2017
6,209
5,982
113
#1
People keep thinking these are the same just because folks experience problems with sexual function.

IMO they are not the same.

here I would like to elaborate on differences that I see.


PSSD

1) serotonin DOWNREGULATES AR Serotonin regulates prostate growth through androgen receptor modulation possibly by puting zinc into the cell and increasing HDACs.

2) serotonin inhibits glutamate induced LH and FSH release. 5-HT1A and 5-HT2 receptor activation reduces NMDA-stimulated LH secretion in prepubertal male and female rats - The Physiological Society

This is why in PSSD we see high LH in a lot of people. LH is controlled by serotonin and serotonin is weak after SSRI.

Serotonin also controls ACTH release, so inhibits LH and pushes ACTH. and we see high LH and low ACTH

This is why there is a fork, serotonin is weak ( possibly even high, body is trying to keep it high by killing SERT via sodium loss. ) and AR is weak. and both dont allow each other to upregulate.


So a fork. need to upregulate serotonin and AR at the same time, since the minute serotonin goes up( gets stronger) , glutamate response on LH will be inhibited and LH goes down, and boom ZERO androgen action

In PSSD , progesterone is high normally and this causes sodium to be lost into the urine. This is done since the body wants to kill SERT. to keep serotonin levels high. since serotonin is weak.
SODIUM is what sert works thru.










3) SSRI causes allopregnenolone increase. thus GABA A is affected. opposite of finasteride or blocked by zinc.


4)
Plus I waned to add, SSRIs are not the same,

for example some SSRIs cause insomnia, and some cause hypersomnia on withdrawal.

some like effexor, inhibit LC, and noradrenaline firing. and desensitize A-2 receptors, reduce opiods receptor by increasing opiods that is how they work.

http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/jpet/early/2007/04/12/jpet.107.120915.full.pdf


5) SSRI kills sert, by wasting sodium into the urine, I assume noradrenaline receptors are affected.

Which Antidepressants Are Linked to Greater Hyponatremia Risk? - MPR

Hyponatremia associated with selective serotonin-reuptake inhibitors in older adults. - PubMed - NCBI

I assume after SSRI withdrawal. this never goes back up, since serotonin is weak.


This is why some people who took SSRIs, can actually fix some of their symptoms by effexor)) which is SRNI)) ( I don't really rec this)) or NRIs.


This is why inositol worked for numerous people for PSSD< since inositol is the end effect of noradrenaline receptors, and it downregulates NA receptors and upregulates serotonin.




SO we see problems with glutamate response. noradrenaline receptors upregulation. increased dopamine, upregulated Beta 1 and a1 receptors, may be this is why dopamine is highish.. which cause low estrogen action , and estrogen controls tons of stuff like BDNF, downregulated AR, and SERT.



As I mentioned in my opinion the cure is tribulus with cyprohepdatine. upregulate AR , downregulate a1 and beta 1 with estrogen( tribulus) or other estrogenic stuff.) and upregulate gaba and serotonin by blocking serotonin. fix glutamate response.

But tons of different methods can achieve this.

This is why several people got cured from taking dopamine agonists in PSSD< since that upregulates gaba and serotonin. and fix glutamate.





@Jaxx @barbaar @talkingant






PFS

1) finasteride upregulates ARs in DHT sensitive tissues.

2) Finasteride blocks gaba action, thus gaba upregulates.

3) finasteride possible raises aldo and cortisol slightly downregulating them .


Since GABA upregulated it inhibits glutamate release. or may be gaba is downregulated and causes too much glutamate to convert to gaba.

glutamate increases dopamine release, so no dopamine release, this increases prolactin, which raises calcium.

calcium inhibits estrogen .


Since there is no glutamate there is little LH and ACTH and FSH.

thus production of all hormones are low

but the body raises SHBG and CBG and keeps circulating hormones in blood longer, thus their levels seem fine.


This is why several people felt total recovery as a stilt from taking cortisol plus testosterone plus thyroid.

And this is why GHB cured people since this downregulated gaba and increased glutamate firing, as they call dopamine rebound. when it is more glutamate rebound. @MCurtone


This is why people felt cured on butyrates, and HDAC inhibitors, since this increases AR signaling, and downregulate AR in DHT sensitive tissues,

since ARs itself can suppress glutamate firing. Also they are gaba agonists and downregulate gaba.


this is why in PFS people actually feel better when upregulating ARs. Since they dont even produce hormones.
 
Last edited:

Trump_1776

Well-Known Member
May 5, 2018
512
458
63
United States
LOCATION
Donald Trump
#2
People keep thinking these are the same just because folks experience problems with sexual function.

IMO they are not the same.

here I would like to elaborate on differences that I see.


PSSD

1) serotonin DOWNREGULATES AR Serotonin regulates prostate growth through androgen receptor modulation possibly by puting zinc into the cell and increasing HDACs.

2) serotonin inhibits glutamate induced LH and FSH release. 5-HT1A and 5-HT2 receptor activation reduces NMDA-stimulated LH secretion in prepubertal male and female rats - The Physiological Society

This is why in PSSD we see high LH in a lot of people. LH is controlled by serotonin and serotonin is weak after SSRI.

3) SSRI causes allopregnenolone increase. thus GABA A is downregulated. or blocked by zinc.


4)
Plus I waned to add, SSRIs are not the same,

for example some SSRIs cause insomnia, and some cause hypersomnia on withdrawal.

some like effexor, inhibit LC, and noradrenaline firing. and desensitize A-2 receptors, that is how they work.

http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/jpet/early/2007/04/12/jpet.107.120915.full.pdf




SO we see highish glutamate increased dopamine, upregulated Beta 1 and a1 receptors. which cause low estrogen action , and estrogen controls tons of stuff like BDNF

As I mentioned in my opinion the cure is tribulus with cyprohepdatine. upregulate AR , downregulate a1 and beta 1 with estrogen( tribulus) or other estrogenic stuff.) and upregulate gaba and serotnin by blocking serotonin.





@Jaxx @barbaar @talkingant






PFS

1) finasteride upregulates ARs in DHT sensitive tissues.

2) Finasteride blocks gaba action, thus gaba upregulates.

3) finasteride possible raises aldo and cortisol slightly downregulating them .


Since GABA upregulated it inhibits glutamate release

glutamate increases dopamine release, so no dopamine release, this increases prolactin, which raises calcium.

calcium inhibits estrogen .


Since there is no glutamate there is little LH and ACTH and FSH.

thus production of all hormones are low

but the body raises SHBG and CBG and keeps circulating hormones in blood longer, thus their levels seem fine.


This is why several people felt total recovery as a stilt from taking cortisol plus testosterone plus thyroid.

And this is why GHB cured people since this downregulated gaba and increased glutamate firing, as they call dopamine rebound. when it is more glutamate rebound. @MCurtone


This is why people felt cured on butyrates, and HDAC inhibitors, since this increases AR signaling, and downregulate AR in DHT sensitive tissues,

since ARs itself can suppress glutamate firing. Also they are gaba agonists and downregulate gaba.


this is why in PFS people actually feel better when upregulating ARs. Since they dont even produce hormones.
Does tribulus increase AR signaling?
 

MCurtone

Well-Known Member
Apr 7, 2019
159
144
43
Canada
#3
"glutamate increases dopamine release, so no dopamine release, this increases prolactin, which raises calcium." - So this is why we feel low drive? Also my Prolactin was on the highish side.

"Since there is no glutamate there is little LH and ACTH and FSH." - Yup. Mine were quite low, especially FSH. But ACTH seemed fine.

However my SHBG is pretty low, and my DHT is also low, but I am still losing hair faster and faster.

So the cure is GHB (addresses gaba & dopamine), Butyrates (HDAC Inhibitors and AR Signaling/silencing)

Thing is GHB did not cure me, but increased my baseline. I don't know what is left to do. If my AR is fucked up, how does low DHT correlate with it?

Regardless I am going to be getting more GHB. My Butyrate supps are coming in soon. I stopped all sugar and have been zero carb the last 5 days.

Also my Progesterone was somewhat high, again while DHT is low. This makes me feel that my body us using progesterone to oppose estrogen instead of DHT, like one of your original theories talk about. I am still curious about the clomid, dostinex protocol for this.
 

Helen

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Oct 5, 2017
6,209
5,982
113
#5
"glutamate increases dopamine release, so no dopamine release, this increases prolactin, which raises calcium." - So this is why we feel low drive? Also my Prolactin was on the highish side.

"Since there is no glutamate there is little LH and ACTH and FSH." - Yup. Mine were quite low, especially FSH. But ACTH seemed fine.

However my SHBG is pretty low, and my DHT is also low, but I am still losing hair faster and faster.

So the cure is GHB (addresses gaba & dopamine), Butyrates (HDAC Inhibitors and AR Signaling/silencing)

Thing is GHB did not cure me, but increased my baseline. I don't know what is left to do. If my AR is fucked up, how does low DHT correlate with it?

Regardless I am going to be getting more GHB. My Butyrate supps are coming in soon. I stopped all sugar and have been zero carb the last 5 days.

Also my Progesterone was somewhat high, again while DHT is low. This makes me feel that my body us using progesterone to oppose estrogen instead of DHT, like one of your original theories talk about. I am still curious about the clomid, dostinex protocol for this.


this is why you have no libido or erection problems.
 

MCurtone

Well-Known Member
Apr 7, 2019
159
144
43
Canada
#6
this is why you have no libido or erection problems.
But I actually have decent libido and my erections are always perfect. I can cut steel and stay hard during sex the whole time. Libido was never my issue during PFS. Only cognitive problems.

When I say low drive, I mean drive for LIFE, passion, etc. Sex drive is fine.


EDIT: Unless you meant "this is why you do NOT have libido problems or erection problems
 
Likes: Kjbigman

Kjbigman

Well-Known Member
May 25, 2019
193
30
28
27
USA
#7
interesting. low glutamate in fin. I got tons of muscle twitches from it. So the whole time I thought the issue was high glutamate.
 

bruschi11

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2017
2,323
2,015
113
31
Boston, MA
#8
"glutamate increases dopamine release, so no dopamine release, this increases prolactin, which raises calcium." - So this is why we feel low drive? Also my Prolactin was on the highish side.

"Since there is no glutamate there is little LH and ACTH and FSH." - Yup. Mine were quite low, especially FSH. But ACTH seemed fine.

However my SHBG is pretty low, and my DHT is also low, but I am still losing hair faster and faster.

So the cure is GHB (addresses gaba & dopamine), Butyrates (HDAC Inhibitors and AR Signaling/silencing)

Thing is GHB did not cure me, but increased my baseline. I don't know what is left to do. If my AR is fucked up, how does low DHT correlate with it?

Regardless I am going to be getting more GHB. My Butyrate supps are coming in soon. I stopped all sugar and have been zero carb the last 5 days.

Also my Progesterone was somewhat high, again while DHT is low. This makes me feel that my body us using progesterone to oppose estrogen instead of DHT, like one of your original theories talk about. I am still curious about the clomid, dostinex protocol for this.
You’re looking way too deeply into the hormones man.
There is no doubt in my mind.

Hormones are important but the nutrients at the top of the stream proceeding them are so much more. You’ve been sick for awhile, done a lot of crazy things like coffee enemas, carnivore diet, along with what else?

You don’t have sexual pfs at all you are basically saying. That said, I wouldn’t worry about the hormones. If you’re sexual attributes are where you want them to be- it’s more of a health issue than a pfs issued I’d think.

I’d worry about regulating your system and finding a way to truly balance it. Maybe bring back some carbs and run a normal strong paleo diet. Maybe just run tei, ARL, or try a self controlled balancing program w/ help of a practitioner (like I’m doing

You’ve definitely worked with some incredible stuff in alternative health. A wide variety of truly incredible stuff you’ve bio-hacked with. Why not just try what seems to make sense as the best “health way out”. Sure nutritional balancing isn’t curing everyone here of sexual stuff, but it sure seems to be helping a good % more with cognitive issues.
 

MCurtone

Well-Known Member
Apr 7, 2019
159
144
43
Canada
#10
You’re looking way too deeply into the hormones man.
There is no doubt in my mind.

Hormones are important but the nutrients at the top of the stream proceeding them are so much more. You’ve been sick for awhile, done a lot of crazy things like coffee enemas, carnivore diet, along with what else?

You don’t have sexual pfs at all you are basically saying. That said, I wouldn’t worry about the hormones. If you’re sexual attributes are where you want them to be- it’s more of a health issue than a pfs issued I’d think.

I’d worry about regulating your system and finding a way to truly balance it. Maybe bring back some carbs and run a normal strong paleo diet. Maybe just run tei, ARL, or try a self controlled balancing program w/ help of a practitioner (like I’m doing

You’ve definitely worked with some incredible stuff in alternative health. A wide variety of truly incredible stuff you’ve bio-hacked with. Why not just try what seems to make sense as the best “health way out”. Sure nutritional balancing isn’t curing everyone here of sexual stuff, but it sure seems to be helping a good % more with cognitive issues.
I appreciate your reply @bruschi11.

The things that single-highhandedly helped me the most were:

1. Raw carnivore diet (inclusive of organs and fat)
2. GHB
3. ZERO SUPPLEMENTS
4. Avoiding ANYTHING that causes an allergic reaction or inflammation (I am finding this might be the most important, and why the carnivore diet helps so much)

Everything else I've done has had some success and setbacks. But it seems that a VERY controlled diet with no allergens is what allows me to feel best. The problem is I end up adding things or removing things too often or quickly. The times I felt cured was when I was on pure carnivore with no allergens, like dairy, or plants/juices that cause gas.

Right now I am on 70% raw, 30% cooked carnivore diet, celtic salt, san pellegrino and clarified butter. I will be stopping the butter because even though I don't seem to be reacting much, my gut tells me it's still causing issues. So I will proceed with zero allergens as of tomorrow.

This leaves me with only a few things I can think of in regards to my pfs and cognitive issues: histamine issue, severe SIBO, Cortisol issues, CB1 Receptor issues, gaba issues or lastly, a PTSD-Type Limbic Trauma caused by the intense and long duration of stress during the PFS crash, which my brain hasn't completely recovered from. That could be why I am so sensitive even to foods as well.

I understand what you mean in regards to hormones. And to be honest, hormones probably will not fix these major sensitivities and reactions to the most basic of foods, that is unless of course its cortisol related because I believe cortisol, GR/MR play a role in inflammation and allergies. But honestly at this point, who the fuck knows why I have these pfs symptoms. But they surely are not sexual.
 

Ergogenic Health

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2019
108
42
28
23
Melbourne
#12
As I mentioned in my opinion the cure is tribulus with cyprohepdatine. upregulate AR , downregulate a1 and beta 1 with estrogen( tribulus) or other estrogenic stuff.) and upregulate gaba and serotnin by blocking serotonin.
I am the guy who gets cured by Cyproheptadine withdrawal. 4 days after a single 0.5mg dose, I feel amazing. Strong in the gym, amazing sensation in gonads and better mood.
During the 4 days, its absolute HELL. Makes me feel like death. But the rebound is always worth it.
 

Helen

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Oct 5, 2017
6,209
5,982
113
#13
Last edited:

Aleksandr

Well-Known Member
Oct 4, 2017
1,265
634
113
#14
@Helen thoughts on modafinil?
 

Helen

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Oct 5, 2017
6,209
5,982
113
#17
I dont recognise the high LH in pssd, with some exceptions obviously

Here my thoughts about this.


the LH release would depend I guess on your abiiilty to raise progesterone. the lower the ability to raise progesterone the higher LH, and lower DHT.


Dont you have high LH. talkingant also high LH. Barbaar highish LH.


LH in this case will depend on vitamin B2 availablity , the lower b2 goes the higher LH will be.

So the more body is able to substitute SERT inhibition of SSRI by raising progesterone, the less LH will be. More SERT inhibition , more serotonin less LH.

Progesterone is a SERT inhibitor .

Why do you think when you take SSRI which inhibits SERT, progesterone starts converting hard into allopregnenolone. since the body is getting rid of progesterone,

and after you quit SSRI, the body will use all its resources to raise progesterone. this will cause low b2 ( which was saw in a lot of PSSD cases) needed to TONS Of other reactions like glutathione recycling, methytlation, etc. and later on you get hypofunction of glutamate since there is no glutathione, upregulating glutamate, without glutathione will cause BRAIN damage))


this is why it is so dangerous , if people play with receptors and stuff and not curing the actual focal point.





Progesterone when raised causes SODIUM to be lost into the urine. ( as you can see in barbaar test)


Sodium is what SERT works on, so progesterone (and the body ) is trying to keep SERT down to increase serotonin levels.


It basically just gets stuck like that after SSRI. and progesterone now is substituting SSRI action .


Noradrenaline receptors are probably overexpressed, this stops estrogen, since estrogen converts dopamine into noradrenaline.

since there is no conversion dopamine is high or normal., and glutamate release is probably low or normal.. SO depending on progesterone level, you will have normal or higher LH.


Of course these are for SSRIs. not SRNIs and prozacs.



Actually SRNI can help SSRI problems by downregulating noradrenaline receptors. So for some people some symptoms can go away on that, but of course it is probably scary)))
 
Last edited:

Ergogenic Health

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2019
108
42
28
23
Melbourne
#18
I had 0.5mg of Cyproheptadine again 2 nights ago, and I feel TERRIBLE. But I wait for the rebound, in 2 more days. Wow, I feel high prolactin and low dopamine symptoms from Cypro in such small doses.