PSSD explanation( high ZINC)

Helen

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#1
PSSD is possible zinc toxicity( or copper in some cases may be more for PFS)


mechanism goes like this.

and in this case, ZINC increases GABA B.

that is ALL.


zinc blocks gaba a , this increases glutamate to gaba conversion. so total GABA level goes up.

this total GABA level acts on GABA B receptor. GABA B thru inositol phos phate increases intracelluar CALCIUM


progesterone goes up, cortisol is inhibited. histamine inhibited, estrogen inhibited,( low cannabinoids, low anandamide) low opiods - these are your emotions.

this is PSSD.



SSRIs put zinc into the brain. and most people needed magnesium not zinc.


SSRI acts on CRF , CRF increases ACTH, ACTH puts ZINC into the cell. This is the mechanism of SSRI.


when calcium is high in the cell. metabolism is SLOW, progesterone goes up, and CORTISOL stays down. and that is CORRECT


Cortisol and Estrogen go up in fast metabolism. estorgen increases anandamide which gives you emotions, estrogen increases histamine, which gives you libido.

and estrogen increases acetycholine. which gives you sensitivity.


Copper actually blocks GABA A receptor also in the same way. SO copper brain toxicity could be also in play with a similar mechanism

Interaction between copper and zinc at GABAA receptors in acutely isolated cerebellar Purkinje cells of the rat


@talkingant @Jaxx @barbaar @Area-1255 @Astral kid
 
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Nina

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#2
"zinc blocks gaba a , this increases glutamate to gaba conversion. so total GABA level goes up."

If it blocks Gaba-a, then how would it increase total Gaba levels?
 

Helen

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"zinc blocks gaba a , this increases glutamate to gaba conversion. so total GABA level goes up."

If it blocks Gaba-a, then how would it increase total Gaba levels?

what ? it blocks GABA A receptor, and increases production of GABA> by converting glutamate to gaba. So now you have gaba A receptor |BLOCKED

and levels of GABA high. this high level acts on GABA B receptor. increasing intracellular calcium by inositol triphosphate
 

Ingeno

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#6
@Ingeno some people get PSSD and PFS type of symptoms after taking zinc. it is not a joke. and not a candy.
I understand that now. Also in my teens at first I felt great on zinc, greater libido and more power in the gym. Now on TEI I feed bad on zinc, no libido at all and a lot of apathy.
 

Ergogenic Health

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#11
Me aswell, horrible on zinc. Took 100-150mg daily for over a year which completely fucked me up. Lost emotions, felt apathetic 24/7 like a zombie. Also it made me pale AF

So terrible. Zinc is so toxic at high doses. We should really be careful.

How do you feel on Olive Leaf extract?

Also - We struggle with low sodium symptoms... since Licorice helps us.
 

Helen

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@talkingant @Jaxx I agree with you that if GR is upregulated and gets stuck like that somehow. may be that is what causes high free zinc? and zinc losses. and may be that blocks GABA A, floating around zinc?


So basically we have things to try

1) high zinc in the brain ,probably can be chelated by EDTA. Zinc blocks GABA A- causes glutamate to gaba conversion to go higher. increases total GABA which acts on GABA B. leads to calcium activation, and slows metabolism

Hydroxamic acid are used to chelate zinc. those are usually HDAC inhibitors also, which increase acetylation and make androgen signal stronger.


2) high copper - DMSA copper blocks GABA A also. increases prolactin this way increases calcium activation. Slows metabolism.

3) upregulated GR , causing high free zinc as a possibilty. since the body is trying to get rid of zinc. In this case, we can try ways 1) ketoconazole 2) cortisol ( which many did)




Interaction between copper and zinc at GABAA receptors in acutely isolated cerebellar Purkinje cells of the rat
 
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Aflac94

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#13
So terrible. Zinc is so toxic at high doses. We should really be careful.

How do you feel on Olive Leaf extract?

Also - We struggle with low sodium symptoms... since Licorice helps us.
I have high hair test copper which I still don’t understand if that means I’m losing/getting rid of lots of copper, and therefore have low or normal levels versus the higher hair copper indicating that I have too much copper, ?

Anyway as as result, TEI gives me tons of zinc, is this safe , given what we are talking about here with zinc being toxic too, my hair zinc is in the normal range
 

RebelWithACause

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Jan 20, 2018
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#14
I have high hair test copper which I still don’t understand if that means I’m losing/getting rid of lots of copper, and therefore have low or normal levels versus the higher hair copper indicating that I have too much copper, ?

Anyway as as result, TEI gives me tons of zinc, is this safe , given what we are talking about here with zinc being toxic too, my hair zinc is in the normal range
Yes my man. Otherwise I would already be dead at this point (3 cycles high in ZMC) and I am doing better. Don't worry too much when you are on cycle. TEI gives you stuff to chelate minerals. Not to fill you up on zinc. So you have high copper. They put you on a lot of zinc so copper comes out. Then next cycle they might give you copper to replenish it again and make it work. Plus they give you other stuff not just the zinc. Which works with the other minerals.
 

Helen

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#15
I got PSSD-like symptoms from ashwagandha (KSM-66), but I think tons of herbs, supplements and hormones and zinc itself all contributed to that reaction as well. I was just abusing too many pro-androgenic, anti-estrogenic and anti-cortisol drugs/supplements for way too long. Things like DHT itself (from Russian Star Peptides...), androsterone, DHEA, butea superba, gingko, etc. I cured myself after months of having lower libido and a strange feeling down there by using 4mg of cyproheptadine for a week. Thiamine also always helps, so does caffeine and taurine. I noticed that zinc; camomile and other things high in apigenin such as celery; and theanine all get me back to those previous problems to some extent, so I have to avoid them. But if I do, I'm 100% fine. It seems that everything which is blocking 5 alpha reductase/acts similarly to progesterone is a problem for me and things which increase acetylcholine, cortisol and even estrogen are helpful.

Also increasing magnesium and decreasing calcium helps too. I'm unsure about boron - supplementing a few mgs seem to increase libido a bit, but my skin gets worse from it. L-histidine is a bit similar but with a much worse skin reaction and even increased dandruff.

All in all my experiences match your descriptions and explanations quite well, so I think it's all pretty accurate. It's weird though that people with actual PSSD don't really improve on cyproheptadine, while it was able to cure me nearly 100%. So I think in case of SSRIs some more serious damage might prevent it from working and something else is needed or they aren't using it the right way (dosage, time, combining with other things and what to avoid, etc.)

Also my libido has always been very high. So even when it was lower it was probably well above average, the main problem was that Brute Jr. didn't feel 100% right. It was very weird, especially because I was still able to maintain erections for as long as I wanted and the size was the same too, so luckily no shrinking, but it just felt dead and inflexible.

yeah I suggested cypro plus tribulus. https://www.hackstasis.com/threads/upregulated-gr-cortisol-receptor-theory.1648/


there is a guy in that thread @Ergogenic Health who also feels cured on cypro on the rebound. and he took ashwaganda also and got similar PSSD thing.
 

Ingeno

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#16

Ergogenic Health

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#17
So yes,
@Brute and I have exchanged conversations for many months because we have identical symptoms.


Brute took the plunge first and used cyproheptadine 4mg for about a week... and he messaged me days later saying that it was doing something very positive on 4-5 later.


So then after messaging him a month later, he was still good.

So I took decided (after succeeding and having windows with the homeopathic remedy Phosphorus), to try Cypro.



Surprisingly, my first time using Cypro didn't cause me the huge sedation everyone spoke about.

But the next day all my symptoms were indeed worse.

But then day 4, I had a rebound cure that seemed to last for about 4-5 days.

Now the longer I use cypro (3-4 days in a row, the longer the positive effects). But I recently worsened myself by using Hydrogen water.

Yohimbine mother tincture homeopathy also seems to give me a very immediate cure of PSSD symptoms.
 
Likes: Nina