PropeciaHelp Nutritional Balancing Recovery (2010- Letsconvenience)

bruschi11

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#1
@RebelWithACause had a great find the other day. A PFS recovery story on Propeciahelp who recovered with Nutritional Balancing (ARL) as his major method of curing himself. He also used ox bile which coincides with hackstasis' hypothesis that correcting bile synthesis is very important in fixing those with PFS.

Due to Propeciahelp being completely unfair- banning people for providng their recovery, removing threads where people have had success etc, I believe its smart to get a collection of recoveries stories that have relevance to this site over here. I find it very likely that we see a majority of the recovery stories over there deleted in time- especially those dating back to the early 2010s. I will copy and paste Letsconvenience's major posts regarding his recovery here.
 

bruschi11

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#2
June 2010- Letsconvenience

"
Greetings fellow sufferers,

A few of you may recognize my handle name, as I posted here semi-frequently several years ago. To refresh anyone’s memory (or just introduce myself), I took finasteride for about two weeks when I was 19, and suffered the typical gamut of side effects for upwards of six years. I took a pretty pro-active role in trying to figure out what my issues were after visiting seven different doctors in three countries to no avail, and ended up using myself as my own human guinea pig. I tried different hormone regimes, diets, and even a fast, and eventually ended up pursuing different supplement routines to boost neurotransmitters (specifically dopamine, but I also dabbled with GABA, serotonin, and acetylcholine).

Well, fast forward to now. I’m doing a hell of a lot better, and it turned out that most of what I was doing was moot. Granted, I got some great results from some of the self-devised protocols I attempted, but even the longest-lasting results eventually faded away into some tide of side effects. Finasteride kept seeming to win out. Blast!

Anyhoo, long story short: I found a pretty amazing nutritionist who really got me on the right road to recovery. I’ll spare you the details of how I found him, or my whole health odyssey in general, but here’s the meat and potatoes of everything you may be interested to know. Please note that I am not a doctor, merely a theoretical syntactician with a rabid new-found interest in naturopathy, and that I can’t guarantee everybody on this board has the same problems, or that what turned out to be my personal solution will work for everybody (or even anybody) else.

  1. Diagnostics
    I found a nutritionist who facilitates hair analyses through Analytical Research Labs based in Phoenix, Arizona. I kept my head hair so short that I had to send my pubes off to be whizmagigged in a lab. Reputable hair analysis gives a pretty accurate account of the composition of different minerals and nutrients in your body, and based on the results the lab delivers, a competent nutritionist can make several recommendations (supplemental, dietary, and lifestyle) to get your body into optimum shape.
  2. What the crap was wrong with me
    According to my first analysis (I’ve since had two and am about to send off for a third), I had two main problems. Primarily, my sodium:potassium ratio was crazy low (about 1.2:1 when 2.5:1 is ideal), which was causing massive fatigue and indicating the ever elusive “adrenal exhaustion.” Secondly, my body had stupidly high amounts of copper.
  3. Copper Toxicity
    Copper toxicity is just the state of having too much copper in your body, but it fucks with you like whoa. Unfortunately the literature on it is appallingly slim, but Analytical Research Labs and Dr. Larry Wilson have some informative (if not a little poorly presented) articles on the subject. I highly suggest you all read them, as copper toxicity accounted for all the seemingly paradoxical side effects I was experiencing after finasteride: fatigue, low cholesterol, low blood pressure, low sex drive, low blood sugar yet no appetite, brain fog, and anxiety.
  4. Recovery
    After my first analysis, my nutritionist made a few dietary recommendations (namely to consume protein whenever possible and to cut down on sugar and starches) and also advised me to take a handful of supplements (a multi-mineral, multi-vitamin, calcium/magnesium supplement, digestive aid, ground-up adrenal glands, and ground up thyroid glands). After the progress I made by my second analysis, I was able to cut out the thyroid stuff, and am now taking five supplements three times a day. Everything is pretty low dose, and between them and a sensible diet, my side effects are greatly diminished. I have a ton more energy, can think much more clearly, deal with stress like I used to, and–I’m sure what everybody’s hoping to read–my sex drive and erectile function is back. Every so often I’ll go through a bout of detoxing (basically, my body produces enough energy to start pushing out more and more copper, which can cause side effects to temporarily flare up while the body processes it), but 90% of the time is fantastic, and good/normal days vastly outnumber the bad ones.
  5. Concrete Information
    -Nutritionist
    My nutritionist’s name is Alex Tuggle, and his clinic, Holistic Back Relief, is based in Berkley, California. He’s foremost an accupuncturist but deals extensively in nutrition, and I can verify that he’s the real deal. He deals with people over the phone and online, so you don’t have to worry about expensive travel fees.
-Costs
The initial hair analysis is $140, and each subsequent one is $90. Alex will provide a 90-minute consultation for each test free of charge, and I called him every once in a while to ask him a few questions or run something by him, and he always made himself available. Retesting is recommended every 3ish months. The supplements the lab and Alex will recommend can cost anywhere from $50-100 for a month’s supply, which I realize may be steep for some, but they’ve done me a whirlwind of good, and given how much money I’ve spent on blind stabs in the dark, this isn’t much of an expense to bite off.

-Speed
Unfortunately, depending on how bad your symptoms are, recovery takes time. When I first started the protocol, I felt absolutely amazing for about two weeks, but then I started detoxing (i.e. ejecting copper from my soft tissues into my blood stream) and felt god awful. The supplements are designed to help minimize the side effects as greatly as possible, but they’re not always enough. There might be a few moments of hell, but I can personally attest that the detox side effects are no worse than the state I was in after experiencing gradually worsening finasteride side effects for close to six years. After about five months on the program, I felt consistently good with little bouts of detox here and there.

-Links
Alex Tuggle, nutritionist extraordinnaire
Copper Toxicity Symptoms and Treatment: holistic-back-relief.com/cop … icity.html
(Just check out his Contacts link to request a hair analysis)

Larry Wilson
Copper Toxicity Syndrome: drlwilson.com/articles/coppe … ndrome.htm
Eliminating Copper: drlwilson.com/articles/coppe … nation.htm

Analytical Research Labs
Copper Elimination: arltma.com/CopperElimDoc.htm

  1. Protocol Details
    Basically, I took supplements three times a day: in the morning after waking up, then at noon, then again at 5pm. I avoided junky food and was gangsta about eating hard-boiled eggs as frequently as possible to get an adequate amount of protein into my system. I avoided soy protein and whey protein as they seemed to worsen my side effects. It took quite a while for my reactive hypoglycemia to simmer down, so I still did experience dips in mood after eating for a few months.
The supplements I have taken (some of which I am now off) include:
Limcomin (multi-mineral to increase intracellular sodium),
Paramin (cal/mag),
Endo-Dren (adrenal gland concentrate),
Thyro-something-something (thryoid gland concentrate),
Endo-Pan (multi-vitamin to support adrenal glands)
Ox bile (exactly what it sounds like; did wonders for me; I recommend Jarrow’s Bile Acid Formulations)
Dehydrocholic acid (a digestive aid; this did not work for me at all and I quickly discontinued it in favor of the ox bile)

  1. Pontification
    The question we’re all wondering is, How the crap did finasteride do what it did to us? Unfortunately, I can offer no concrete answers, but given all the reading I’ve done, it seems like, at least in some users, finasteride can a) cause liver damage (just google “finasteride hepatitis” for some horrifying reading), and b) drastically increase estrogen levels. Estrogen is positively correlated with copper, meaning that as one increases the other one increases as well, and if your liver is at all malfunctioning, your body will not be able to excrete copper at all effectively. As copper piles up, it keeps estrogen at high levels, and the copper itself literally starts piling up on your liver. Once your liver is full, copper will start piling up on your brain. Between this crap going on and the fact that excess estrogen levels for some reason start antagonizing thyroid and liver function, you can see how anybody’s endocrine system goes down the tubes if they’re susceptible to this poison.
This is just my little brainstorm, and I have no idea if it’s what has actually happened to me, let alone all of us, but I feel a gazillion times better having been on the protocol for a few months. My second analysis showed a ton of crap working its way out of me (my body is excreting much more copper and even manganese, as well as mercury). I’d be happy to post my results as soon as I can access a scanner, if anybody would be interested in looking them over.

  1. What you can start doing immediately
    If you’re interested in pursuing naturopathy (and I highly, highly recommend it), here’s some stuff you can start doing today:
  2. Contact Alex and request a hair analysis kit. It’ll probably take one month to get the results back after you send off for one. He’s been really flexible about payment in my experience. And if you don’t have much head hair, you can send off pubes. If you shave your groin, go au natural for a while.
  3. Start taking ox bile. It’s amazing stuff. I recommend Jarrow’s Bile Acid Formulations, which is available at iherb.com. Take one tablet three times a day (maybe two tablets three times a day if you feel the need), and you can expect some cramping the first week as it helps your body break down some gross stuff inside of it. While on the bile, I immediately noticed a dramatic decrease in anxiety, brain fog, and fatigue. Bile is the main excretory channel for both excess estrogen and copper, so go figure. Note: be near a toilet at all times or you will sorely regret it. Emphasize on sore.
  4. Look into Vitamin B1. Although not heavily emphasized in my protocol, Vitamin B1 has been a god send for me. It prevents the formation of lactic acid, and I feel that lactic acid was the main force behind my brain fog and god-awful calf cramps. Vitamin B1 also increases sodium, which I desperately needed, providing a very welcome boost in an unexpected way. A reasonable dosage is 500mg three times a day, and an additional 500mg whenever you feel the need.
  5. When experiencing a particularly nasty bout of anxiety, try a high-grade cal/mag supplement. Calcium mops up lactic acid and also slows down your entire metabolism, which can take the edge of an anxiety attack. Note that initially, calcium could exaggerate feelings of brain fog.
I realize this is a ton of information to digest at once, but if anybody’s interested, I’ll make myself available via private messages. I’ll also try to check this board for any comments on this thread. I’m not going to reply to gratuitously dismissive messages, but if you have a legitimate question, I’d be happy to volunteer what I know.

In closing, I hope this information helps somebody! If I had been aware of hair analysis and naturopathy when I first got into this mess, I can’t imagine how much faster I would have recovered. It’s been a nightmare for sure, but the good part is that I found my light at the end of the tunnel. I’ve got my fingers crossed that we’re all on the same train track."
 

bruschi11

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#3
June 2010- Letsconvenience

In response to the “could have just gotten over it” statement: I’m not responding to gratuitously dismissive statements. Either take it seriously or don’t bother. Regarding your actual input, I have had blood work, and my liver panel always came out fine, whereas I was “borderline” hypothyroid. Hormone-wise, things were all in normal ranges, but my progesterone:estrogen ratio was staggeringly low (about 12:1, when 35:1 is closer to normal for men). Testosterone was surprisingly fine, though.

I doubt it’s strict “hypothyroidism,” as in my educated guess that’s not even a real condition, but rather a series of contributing factors that retard thyroid function. There’s also Hashimoto’s Disease, but that’s really an auto-immune disorder, as opposed to just a crapped out thyroid gland.

To reiterate, I’m strongly under the impression that I had drastically escalated copper levels. It might sound over-simplified for some, but in my book, simple is good. I’d much rather work with something like “nutritional imbalance” than “permanently altered gene expression.”
 
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bruschi11

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#4
June 2010- Letsconvenience

Golf:

It’s difficult to say which supplement specifically boosts sex drive, as you need a pretty balanced nutrient/mineral palette to acheive optimum health. One thing I didn’t realize about nutrition before I got involved with this is that one of the risks of “mega-dosing” a vitamin, beyond potential side effects from toxicity or overdose, is that the presence of any single nutrient can and will decrease other nutrients depending on how they’re related. So, keeping this in mind, if you have a mostly normal nutritional profile and your sex drive is low, adding zinc (20 mg) and manganese (15mg) three times a day is likely to improve both your libido and rectify the emotional displacement problems a lot of people here seem to experience. However! Zinc is going to reduce your sodium and eat up certain B vitamins, which could exasperate fatigue, making you feel worse than you started. At the same time, both zinc and manganese expel copper from soft tissues, which could exaggerate anxiety once excess copper is pushed into your bloodstream. The most sound approach is to take very low doses of a certain palette of vitamins and minerals. Again, this does sound over-simplified, but the proof is in the pudding.

An aside: you can’t go wrong with ox bile. Again, I recommend Jarrow’s Bile Acid Formulations, one capsule three times a day. It’s good for everything. You’ll digest food better, feel more energetic, filter out excess estrogen, have a stronger appetite, feel less jittery, maybe even your dick will get hard again, the whole nine yards.

On a related note, if one outcome of finasteride poisoning is copper toxicity, and you’ve just been introduced to the side effects, I personally think it could be beneficial to take ox bile and 50-200mcg (note micrograms, not milligrams) of elemental chromium (not chromium stearate or any other sort) three times a day. Chromium very effectively reduces excess copper levels, and if they’re just beginning to get high, it should help you out quite a bit. However, if your copper levels have been high for a while and affected other parts of your body’s nutritional profile (driving down zinc, escalating calcium, etc.), then chromium could exaggerate tendencies for reactive hypoglycemia and anxiety.

I know, it’s complicated! Hence I recommend contacting a bona fide nutritionist. I happen to have found a great one and I’m telling you his name and contact information. Make use of it!

Mew:

One thing I’ve taken away from naturopathy is that hormones are more like your body’s PR system. In other words, they can tell you what’s going on within the system, but that’s about it. With few exceptions are hormone deficiencies or excesses the sole cause of a problem. You can alter your hormones to whatever levels you want, and likely find relief from symptoms in doing so, but I doubt that’s going to affect any lasting change. (I mean, aren’t most hormone therapies permanent, with the exception of, say, menopause?) Think about it in terms of this big oil spill: clearly the entire situation is fucked up, but PR people are saying it’s actually fine, and not something to worry about so much. So you can have a relatively normal hormone profile (artificially adjusted or not) and still be a mess on the inside. Just saying.

Secondly, hormones are extremely correlated with metals. Zinc is vital to testosterone production, and copper and estrogen promote the presence of one another within the human body. To reiterate a possible view of the finasteride problem: it could be that the drug drives up estrogen, which elevates copper levels. Copper can do all sorts of damage to your endocrine system when it’s at high levels for a prolonged period of time, and this sort of situation can easily result in a very problematic cycle that can’t be fixed without some sort of medical/nutritional intervention.

So, again: I doubt hormones are responsible for much themselves, but rather think they’re indicative of the state a body is currently in. Tampering with hormones may be what set the stage for finasteride poisoning, but I doubt that hormones will be the way out of it.

Finally, there are a few points in your logic that I’d like to contend:

  1. It doesn’t matter if you haven’t read research connecting finasteride and copper toxicity. There’s hardly any research connecting finasteride to anything bad. But you can find documentation that states finasteride impairs liver function, and without a healthy liver, God knows what doesn’t get filtered out of your blood. This point of yours is more an observation than any platitude to argue.
  2. You say that diet and supplements in general haven’t helped many people here, but are any people here doing it in a routine, scientific way? It seems like most people just gobble up the vogue supplement of the month, bitch incessantly when it doesn’t show immediate effects, and everybody jumps on this bandwagon of disapproval. Where’s the methodology??
  3. It’s awesome that medical professionals from different fields are looking into this, but isn’t faith in conventional Western medicine and an FDA-approved drug what got everybody into this mess? Nutrition is tried and true, and I think if your symptoms made you that miserable, you’d be interested in at least the idea of a new approach. There’s no need to shoot so much down so quickly based on reasoning that amounts more to very isolated observations and some hearsay.
tdb:

Thanks! Do yourself a favor and look into this. At the very least you’ll have some interesting food for thought.

Given the amount of private messages I’ve already received from people with questions about the program, I get the impression that many people aren’t comfortable making posts in public on this forum, which is a real shame, because this should be facilitating discussion as opposed to making people ambivalent about saying something for fear that they’ll be put on the spot to defend their ideas and views against all this rampant dismissal. For the record, any questions that I’m asked in private that seem worth making public, I will be posting for anyone who may be interested in reading. Again, I’m not trying to shove my views down anybody’s throat, but I am saying that nutritional therapy did wonders for me, that I have medical tests showing something is screwy, and that the mechanisms by which nutrition is working for me make a ton of sense. I mean, I have a problem that showed up on a lab analysis, I’m being treated for it, and I feel better. This, to me, is much more worth embracing than ideas–and that’s all they are, unfounded could-be statements–that this is because of altered gene expression or androgen receptors or blah blah blah things that you can’t even analyze at this point.

If you want to sit around and wax impossible about getting over this, that’s your call. But I for one have insisted on doing as many different regimes as possible until I found something that worked, and guess what? I did. Now I’m coming back to share it with y’all, and it’s the same anti-active stance: you could be wrong, you could have magically healed, it’s probably something way beyond this, I haven’t read anything about what you’re saying before, blah blah blah. Well, boo on y’all. This is a shitty situation for anyone affected by it but you don’t have to continue victimizing yourself. Get off your ass and encourage the people who are looking for ways to solve this thing.
 
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bruschi11

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#5
July 2010 - Letsconvenience

Yes, you’re completely right, and I’m a total space cadet. The brand of ox bile I’ve been haphazardly recommending to people is none other than Jarrow Formulas Bile Acid Factors. One-third of a gram is quite a high dose, and because bile acid is, y’know, an acid, it’s going to cause some burning discomfort on its way out. Typically if you start to feel this burn and have very frequent diarrhea, that’s a sign that you need to begin gradually reducing your dose. (Also, ox/bovine is just a nomenclature thing, but I think traditionally it’s been called ox bile, so the name has stuck. But thanks for pointing out this discrepancy as well.)

For B1, I was taking supplements endorsed by Analytical Research Labs, which was the same place that does my hair analyses. B1 is included in their “Megapan” multi-vitamin, and afterwards I ended up taking an extra 250mg of B1 three times a day from a generic brand I found at a local vitamin store. While there are different species of B1, they don’t seem to differ that greatly, so as long as you use a brand you trust, I think you’ll be in good shape. A note of caution about B1, though: It reduces magnesium, and if you’re in later stages of finasteride poisoning, this could be enough of a deterrent for you not to take B1 altogether.

I have gradually gone off everything I am taking as my recovery improves. Currently I am taking low-dose calcium/magnesium, a multi-vitamin, a multi-mineral, ox bile, and an adrenal glandular substance (i.e. crushed up pig adrenal gland). When my program started, I was on 7 items, and now it’s 5, and with my upcoming analysis, I suspect it will go down to 3 or 4. My nutritionist has told me that after solving a copper toxicity problem, he recommends people stay on a nutritional balancing program to “restore” the adrenal glands to their normal pre-problematic functioning, and I plan on following his advice. Alex’s methodology is quite gradual and plodding (sometimes to the point that crazily impatient me has experimented without telling him and messed up a few things), but it really works.

Thanks again for your input! As always, private messages are welcome from anyone who doesn’t feel comfortable asking questions on the forum.
 

bruschi11

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#6
Letsconvenience- Aug 2010

Hi everybody!

Aside from dabbling with some private messages here and there, I haven’t been checking in on the board. I’m in the middle of a massive roadtrip across the US and internet access is limited to my friends’ houses across the country, as I don’t have my laptop with me and can’t hop on a computer in a heartbeat like I can at home.

So, having said all that, here are a few answers to questions that have been posed since I last came on.

  1. I claimed to have recovered before but it didn’t work out. Is what I’m saying this time anymore legit?
Yes, I realize I did boast of a recovery years before on a dopamine regime. At the time, I did feel 100% recovered; between the euphoria of feeling normal plus, as some of you have commented on, the sheer drive of wanting something to believe in, I did brag of a full recovery perhaps too early. But actually I did feel great after my dopamine routine for close to a year, when things began to taper off again for me. It was definitely discouraging, but I went back to experimenting on myself, researching as much as I could, and then I stumbled onto copper toxicity. I realize my credibility may be sketchy to many of you, and that’s entirely warranted, but at the same time, I’m not trying to push this view down anybody’s throats. I’ve always tried to share what has worked for me, and people are free to do what they wish with the information. For anybody curious, I think the “dopamine routine” I was on likely improved my thyroid function, which helped regulate my body and make me feel back to normal for quite some time. In other words, dopamine-boosting nutrients like tyrosine and iodine (in small doses) also support the thyroid, and my thyroid was likely compensating for other weaknesses in my endocrine system.

  1. My B1 was off the charts. You say it boosts sodium. What could this mean?
I’m no nurtitionist, but from my understanding of nutrition, if you have high hair levels of a nutrient, it means your body is either a) expelling it, or b) using it up rapidly. So high nutrient levels could indicate either a need to remove something or a need to take more of it. It’s up to a trained (and savvy) nutritionist to interpret results like this for you. The one I recommend is Alex Tuggle! He’s a super hero in my book.

  1. I tested low for copper. Does this rule out copper toxicity?
Not at all. A hair analysis only reflects what your body is pushing out of itself through the hair (on an interesting note, this is likely why you’re almost always going to test low for iron on a hair analysis, since not that much iron comes out through the hair in the first place). My first hair analysis indicated that my copper levels were 100% normal at 2.5 parts per million, but after 10 weeks on a nutritional-balancing program, the copper level shot up to 3.9ppm. In other words, my liver et. al. had gotten back on track enough to start pushing out the copper, which drove up the value on my hair test. As of my third test, copper levels are much lower–I believe 1.9ppm–which is a little lower than normal, but a great sign that my body is sorting itself out.

  1. Is hair analysis a crock of shit?
Most literature available on the internet seems to extremely endorse or poo-poo hair analysis, but there’s not much of a middle ground. I narrowed down my search to two labs I was interested in using, then found a nutritionist that worked with Analytical Research Labs, one of the two. I’m tremendously satisfied with the results of my protocol, so I recommend them. If you’re interested in pursuing hair analysis, I completely recommend it in my experience. My only caveat is that nutritional balancing is quite a gradual process, so anybody hoping for lightning fast results will be disappointed. On a personal note, I thought it was really cool to see how my mineral levels were changing, then compare that with my improvements in mood and physical function. But to address the question at hand, in my experience, hair analysis is valid, but I’m also working with a person I consider to be a gifted nutritionist, so my progress in all this has been very guided.

  1. Sodium is bad for magnesium? What does this mean??
Sodium and magnesium oppose each other, so taking one is going to decrease the other to some degree. Finasteride poisoning seems to eat up calcium and magnesium, and if you’re anything like me, you experienced bad calf cramps and little hard balls in your ear lobe (only in my right ear lobe, personally) as time goes by. I was on my balancing program for about two months before my pesky calf cramps finally went away, and this has been attributed to my body regaining adequate levels of both calcium and magnesium. So if you’ve been suffering FP side effects for quite a while, my guess is that your magnesium is low, so rapidly boosting sodium could possibly make side effects caused by low magnesium (calf cramps, anxiety, constipation) worse.

  1. I have awful diarrhea on ox bile. Is this indicative of anything?
It’s definitely indicative of the fact that you are taking ox bile! Having said that, diarrhea can be one of two things. On one hand, you may be taking too much ox bile. On the other hand, the ox bile may be helping to break down certain things in your digestive tract that your body has put off digesting–things like metals and fungus. If the diarrhea is excessive and causing you, uh, awkward itching, in my experience just going off the stuff for a few days, then resuming it if necessary, is a helpful course of action.

I haven’t made this clear, but I would like to directly express my embarrassment for declaring a full recovery years back when that wasn’t the case. It seemed to me like it was the real deal, and I was so eager to share my news that I jumped the gun. I do understand the damage it does to any credibility of what I may be saying now, but I hope that doesn’t discourage anyone possibly interested in hair analysis from pursuing it.

Another point worth reiterating: your first hair analysis will likely only have a few funny things on it. For my first test, my zinc was low, my sodium was super super super low, and my calcium and magnesium ratio was screwed up. Aside from that, most of my metals seemed normal. However, after my second test, when I started feeling tremendously better, I could see how a bunch of crazy crap started coming out of the woodwork: my copper shot up, my calcium and magnesium took a drastic step toward better balance, and quite a bit of lead started coming out of me. As of my third test, things have really balanced out in a wonderful way, but my zinc and sodium are still low. So I’m taking a bit of stuff to help boost both of those two, and then I’m probably going to end up taking a multi-vitamin for a while to make sure my adrenal glands have what they need to continue normal function until it seems like they’re 100% back on track.

J89, you’re doing a terrific job of carrying the torch, but I wouldn’t bother arguing. It’s going to cause both you and the other side to dig your respective heels further in the sand, and it’s likely going to be a deterrent for anyone considering hair analysis and/or copper toxicity. I advocate making the information available and letting people do with it as they will. But your enthusiasm for the subject is definitely appreciated (if not emulated) by me!



Okay, one final final note, but just to make a plug for the umpteenth time: I strongly recommend the services of Alex Tuggle, nutritionist extraordinaire. He uses Analytical Research Labs for hair analysis and can recommend a very effective (if somewhat plodding) nutritional balancing program. He also answers any number of ridiculous questions through both email and phone, and is just a terrific guy all around. Simply getting a hair test and trying to make sense of it yourself is unlikely to get you anywhere, but with some practical guidance, you can really take a step toward feeling better. Per usual, all of these statements are based on my personal experience, which I am more than happy to share either on the board or through private messages (the latter guaranteeing a faster reply). Regardless of whatever path one may choose to beat this thing, I hope it ends exactly how you’d like it to! Ooh, except for the heroin guy. I read something on here once about a guy using heroin, and I’m not sure if that was the best way to go about things. So maybe heroin guy, I especially recommend you to look into hair analysis, since I assume it’s much safer (and legal!) than heroin.
 

MCurtone

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#7
Big thanks for you @bruschi11 . This thread is gold. I think I am in a similar boat as this guy and I have a hidden copper toxicity, even though I was megadosing zinc for a few years. Will go through all this later.

Shame Bile Acid Factors isn't available. Is it completely discontinued?
 

MNK99

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bruschi11

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#8
Big thanks for you @bruschi11 . This thread is gold. I think I am in a similar boat as this guy and I have a hidden copper toxicity, even though I was megadosing zinc for a few years. Will go through all this later.

Shame Bile Acid Factors isn't available. Is it completely discontinued?
I think so. I’m just using regular ox bile right now and it seems to be working fine.
 

MNK99

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