POTENTIAL explanation for PFS.

Helen

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Oct 5, 2017
6,207
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#1
OK, So the reason why people got PFS in the first place is because they had problems with UDP gluconoryl transferase.

SO basically people had problems converting 3a- adiol into 3a- adiol G. before FIN. Since this conversion is done by UDP enzyme.

Same as people with Gilberts. This is why all Giberts people have POIS. and PFS.


Finasteride is metabolized by this enzyme UDP gluconoric transferase.

Some people still have finasteride in their body now since that enzyme was not working in the first place, this is why people got the hairloss.


The reason people have PFS and POIS is this. If you cant convert 3a- adiol into 3a- adiol G, then your 3 a- adiol accumulates. ( this was found in finasteride studies, that 3a - adiol was high in CFS.)

Body closes down 3 alpha hsd since 3 a-adiol is high. this increases DHT, this then closes down 5AR.


SO you end up with low 3alpha hsd and 5ar. Which then stops all conversion of progesterone and cortisol into its metabolites.

And you get low allopregnenolone and thdoc, and cortisol's thf and alpha thf metabolites.

This causes major problems with the immune system inflammation, anxiety and gaba regulations.



Since UDP enzyme is not working. body has higher DHT Test, progesterone and cortisol. And thus has to lose the zinc finger.

SO it dumps zinc into the urine constantly, to get rid of cortisol and DHT signaling






The fix is to increase UDP enzyme, which will convert 3 adiol into 3 adiol Gluc. This will lower 3 adiol, this will open up 3 alpha hsd and 5ar.

And this will lower cortisol and progesterone and DHT and 3 adiol and the body will actually ASK for the zinc finger.



UDP enzyme works on magnesium and glucoronic acid. ( UDP glucoronate)

Glucuronic acid is made out of glucose. in Uronic acid. pathway. How funny. but this is was first found in URINE))( may be this is how urine therapy works for so many diseases)


IN any case uronic pathway makes glucuronic acid. And in most species then vitamin C is made out of glucuronic acid.

They say in humans it does not happen, and vitamin C is not made out of glucuronic acid.

BUT and it is a huge but, when they give vitamin C , it increases UDP glucuronyl transferase activity 2 times, means that it is probably sparing the glucuronic acid. So may be we do make vitamin C out of glucurornic acid.

When glutathione recycling goes down, since FIN binds NADPH. And NADPH is needed for glutathione reductase. This basically oxidizes most of the vitamin C . and there is no ascrobate, but tons of DHA. Then may be the body starts using glucuronic acid to make extra vitamin C. And thus this enzyme UDP totally stops. And they call this Gilbert's syndrome.

Then when you stop finasteride , DHT goes back up, 3 a- adiol levels go sky high, but UDP is now totally FUCKED. and it is UDP which converts 3a adiol into 3a- adiol G. so the body first stops 3alpha and then 5ar, and and starts to lose zinc .. And CRASH. Look at the chart of hormones


This now makes sense for hairloss and PFS. Finasteride when you take it, kills 3 adiol, and DHT and basically stops the hairloss, which you had before FIn.

the hairloss was happening since your UDP enzyme was not working in the first place. and you had a type of gilbert syndrome.This is why after fin , you still lose hair, if you could metabolize it out. If you could not metabolize it out . you end up with low DHT.


So the fix for this situation, would be anything with glucuronic acid. May be ICELANDIC MOSS



And also you need to restore acrobate levels. with glutathione recylcing. And zinc manganese and b vitamins. vitamin C and E. Basically this is what TEI is trying to do .

And this is what @Orion is doing.





@tallglass13 Hairloss topic. Which brings hairloss basically to availability of ascorbate. which if not available since low glutathione recycling( magnesium b1 b2 etc) , probably causes too much pressure on glucuronic acid. And then your 3 -adiol goes up, 3 adiol G down, and DHT up.

And body loses zinc which is then called pyroluria.



@Orion UDP enzyme is what metabolizes retinoids.
 
Last edited:

diffi

Well-Known Member
Oct 2, 2018
147
66
28
Europe
#3
Would pyroluria cause low ph level in urine?
All pfs ppl have low 3adg - your expl.is very interesting.

What protocol could help - you mentioned some stuff. Could you do it a bit more detailed?

Would eating spinach help re the gluc.problem? Thx
 

Helen

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Oct 5, 2017
6,207
5,979
113
#4
Would pyroluria cause low ph level in urine?
All pfs ppl have low 3adg - your expl.is very interesting.

What protocol could help - you mentioned some stuff. Could you do it a bit more detailed?

Would eating spinach help re the gluc.problem? Thx

yeah, we can discuss it more detailed tomorrow may be.

Just try to read what I wrote and look up pathways, it is pretty straightforward.
 
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SwaZ

Well-Known Member
Mar 3, 2018
432
402
63
20
Serbia
#5
Damn Helen, where do you learn all this stuff... I swear the ammount of knowledge you got is fucking insane lol
I think im convinced about urine therapy, im gonna give it a shot after i get my blood results.
 

bruschi11

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2017
2,317
2,015
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Boston, MA
#7
Would this be reason why my beta glucuronidase levels were through the roof post crash?

Kombucha has it lol. I was drinking a lot of it early on.
 
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joekool

Moderator
Oct 4, 2017
617
548
93
#10
This post reminded me of another finding I found online from when I first crashed. Here’s a quote:

My doctor says it is psychological, what to do?
Argue that there are medical studies published about this problem in reputable scientific journals. If necessary, take copies of the studies published here on the site.Argue that many patients had altered levels of sex hormones from the use of finasteride, and so you need to do these tests. The 3 Alpha Androstenediol Glucuronide is a byproduct of DHT, and is the best indication that you may have developed PFS. It is converted by 5 alpha reductase, the same enzyme that Finasteride blocks. Argue that DHT testing is not very accurate, but 3 Alpha Androstenediol Glucoronide test is reliable, so you will be able to measure your 5 alpha reductase activity by doing this test. If necessary, switch to another doctor.
 

Astral kid

Well-Known Member
Aug 23, 2018
72
51
18
24
Canada
#13
OK, So the reason why people got PFS in the first place is because they had problems with UDP gluconoryl transferase.

SO basically people had problems converting 3a- adiol into 3a- adiol G. before FIN. Since this conversion is done by UDP enzyme.

Same as people with Gilberts. This is why all Giberts people have POIS. and PFS.


Finasteride is metabolized by this enzyme UDP gluconoric transferase.

Some people still have finasteride in their body now since that enzyme was not working in the first place, this is why people got the hairloss.


The reason people have PFS and POIS is this. If you cant convert 3a- adiol into 3a- adiol G, then your 3 a- adiol accumulates. ( this was found in finasteride studies, that 3a - adiol was high in CFS.)

Body closes down 3 alpha hsd since 3 a-adiol is high. this increases DHT, this then closes down 5AR.


SO you end up with low 3alpha hsd and 5ar. Which then stops all conversion of progesterone and cortisol into its metabolites.

And you get low allopregnenolone and thdoc, and cortisol's thf and alpha thf metabolites.

This causes major problems with the immune system inflammation, anxiety and gaba regulations.



Since UDP enzyme is not working. body has higher DHT Test, progesterone and cortisol. And thus has to lose the zinc finger.

SO it dumps zinc into the urine constantly, to get rid of cortisol and DHT signaling

This is why anavar works for some people. since anavar kills cortisol signaling a lot. anavar does not touch the receptors at all, it actually kills the zinc finger.

By killing zinc finger cortisol stops blocking histamine. And people feel better. but this is actually close to finasteride bodychemistry, like they went back on fin.


The fix is to increase UDP enzyme, which will convert 3 adiol into 3 adiol Gluc. This will lower 3 adiol, this will open up 3 alpha hsd and 5ar.

And this will lower cortisol and progesterone and DHT and 3 adiol and the body will actually ASK for the zinc finger.



UDP enzyme works on magnesium and glucoronic acid. ( UDP glucoronate)

Glucuronic acid is made out of glucose. in Uronic acid. pathway. How funny. but this is was first found in URINE))( may be this is how urine therapy works for so many diseases)


IN any case uronic pathway makes glucuronic acid. And in most species then vitamin C is made out of glucuronic acid.

They say in humans it does not happen, and vitamin C is not made out of glucuronic acid.

BUT and it is a huge but, when they give vitamin C , it increases UDP glucuronyl transferase activity 2 times, means that it is probably sparing the glucuronic acid. So may be we do make vitamin C out of glucurornic acid.

When glutathione recycling goes down, since FIN binds NADPH. And NADPH is needed for glutathione reductase. This basically oxidizes most of the vitamin C . and there is no ascrobate, but tons of DHA. Then may be the body starts using glucuronic acid to make extra vitamin C. And thus this enzyme UDP totally stops. And they call this Gilbert's syndrome.

Then when you stop finasteride , DHT goes back up, 3 a- adiol levels go sky high, but UDP is now totally FUCKED. and it is UDP which converts 3a adiol into 3a- adiol G. so the body first stops 3alpha and then 5ar, and and starts to lose zinc .. And CRASH. Look at the chart of hormones


This now makes sense for hairloss and PFS. Finasteride when you take it, kills 3 adiol, and DHT and basically stops the hairloss, which you had before FIn.

the hairloss was happening since your UDP enzyme was not working in the first place. and you had a type of gilbert syndrome.This is why after fin , you still lose hair, if you could metabolize it out. If you could not metabolize it out . you end up with low DHT.


So the fix for this situation, would be anything with glucuronic acid. May be Irish Moss.



And also you need to restore acrobate levels. with glutathione recylcing. And zinc manganese and b vitamins. vitamin C and E. Basically this is what TEI is trying to do .

And this is what @Orion is doing.





@tallglass13 Hairloss topic. Which brings hairloss basically to availability of ascorbate. which if not available since low glutathione recycling( magnesium b1 b2 etc) , probably causes too much pressure on glucuronic acid. And then your 3 -adiol goes up, 3 adiol G down, and DHT up.

And body loses zinc which is then called pyroluria.



@Orion UDP enzyme is what metabolizes retinoids.
So does TEI complete this or no?
 

Walker

Well-Known Member
Oct 7, 2017
627
909
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30
Mountain Brook, AL
#16
Yea keyword "trying" lol I want to know if I should go with TEI or the electrolyte protocol
Honestly just go with what you feel comfortable with and know it’s going to help you. I think people here have had success with both. I have little to no experience with either so I can’t speak one way or the other.
 
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Walker

Well-Known Member
Oct 7, 2017
627
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Mountain Brook, AL
#18
Hence why I asked Helen
Well played, but that wasn't the point of me saying that. You're going to HAVE to try something for yourself first. See how you get along on it - and then @Helen can help you. Asking personal one on one questions on theory threads meant for overall discussion isn't the proper way to go about it. I guarantee that @Goose12 had no promise that his TEI regimen would work, but the dude stuck with it, knocked it out of the park, and he's approaching the finish line. Just start moving in a positive direction and ask questions once you're on the regimen as things begin to occur.

Best of luck man, hope you find something that gets you moving in the right direction.