Opposing Iron

bruschi11

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#1
So over a couple weeks ago I started using a spleen glandular to increase iron as my last two hair tests showed low end (10-15%) iron. With all the zinc I've been taking, it made sense to me that I depleted it even further.

Over in my log, I wrote how it gave me an incredible boost after having a major healing reaction from it. I did a liver flush last week and it went incredibly, was feeling so strong afterward.

Well day after the flush I used ozone trying to work on pathogen, fungal loads. Was struggling with herx and realized the spleen glandular helped me feel better. I over did it, I took a lot of it- like 6-8 capsules.

Since then I've been fine, still feeling the most normal I've ever felt during pfs sexually, mentally. Feels like the iron has done something incredible for my detox system where its capable of killing pathogens and also retaining B2. My urine is consistently bright yellow unlike anytime before- sign that my body is retaining it. My cortisol feels normal, like I'm getting nice serotonin feelings too.

But I have one major issue- I'm completely reliant on coffee to make bowel movements. And even with coffee, my bowel movements are just decent- they aren't as strong as they should be. I've done best with my gut without coffee throughout pfs, but when needed I've utilized it. I don't want to need coffee, I want to run on nutrition lol as I know that's how my body runs best.

That all said, its obvious the overload of iron is still in my system. This "excess iron" feeling is lessening by the day, but its very slow. I need to quicken this process.

Orange juice has been making me feel a lot better. I've been loving it. I know calcium opposes iron. Maybe a 3-5 day OJ fast could help pull me out of this?

Any thoughts would be great. @Helen @HerrFisch @Ocguy and anyone else with a clue here.
 

bruschi11

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#3
How much iron did you get ~ a day?

Maybe manganese? Or just resume the zinc and add some mn?
The glandulars don't give you a fair say in regards to amount. But I did notice that your standard serving of beef liver feeds 33% or so of DV for iron. While standard serving of beef spleen feeds about 235% of your DV. Pretty sure each serving (6 capsules) is supposed to resemble your standard meal of these.

Whats crazy is how @Ocguy is taking 6 capsules daily every single day and he's doing very well on them. He's also taking 4 or so other organ supplements like liver, kidney, heart, brain. LOL I don't know why he's not posting about this as he's having a lot of success physically.

I took 8 capsules last Saturday and still having the issues. I do take 3 mg or so of manganese with each 22mg of zinc I take. Maybe I will increase that to 6 mg.

I'm feeling pretty good in fasted state on OJ. I wouldn't mind doing 5-10 days on this this while doing a lot of sauna. I know fasting and sauna both can chelate excess minerals, but wonder its effectiveness in regards to iron.
 

HerrFisch

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#4
I dont think you should get rid of that iron now. You just took some and felt better. I dont think in that you get toxic in minerals in days. From supplementation. Higher supplementation also lowers uptake.

If you really want to get rid of iron again, I would use curcumin.

But I would rather lower dietary intake or just not take as much glandular. But I honestly doubt they contain that much iron.
 
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bruschi11

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#5
I dont think you should get rid of that iron now. You just took some and felt better. I dont think in that you get toxic in minerals in days. From supplementation. Higher supplementation also lowers uptake.

If you really want to get rid of iron again, I would use curcumin.

But I would rather lower dietary intake or just not take as much glandular. But I honestly doubt they contain that much iron.
I think you're right. Obviously stopping glandular for now is step #1. Might need a little refining of nutrition protocol I'm on. I have talk w/ practitioner on Monday morning.

In mean time I might just do 3-5 days or so on OJ. Let things clear themselves out. It crazy, I also have very little hunger.
 

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bruschi11

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#7
Doesnt iron lower metabolism. Maybe you lowered your metabolic rate too much.
Its an intricate subject iron from the very little I've gathered thus far. In the hormonal cascade of cholesterol-> preg--> prog-> cortisol, Iron is responsible for both converting cholesterol to pregnenolone and progesterone to cortisol. My effects from this have been feeling more cortisol, but far more relaxed as well.

I tolerate caffeine quite well mentally unlike any other time of PFS other than maybe those 8 months of CFS remission I've spoke of. Its just gut. Caffeine depletes potassium and I'm sure hurts gut long term. GRJ (b2/12 guy) highly advocates against caffeine and I know Helen doesn't like it either. I mean I know my body- my gut works best when solely running on nutrition.

I just took a bit extra manganese (from 3mg to 10mg) with my zinc 22mg. Took balancing supps with my OJ about an hour ago. Will be interesting to see how I do with a bit of extra manganese. Felt pretty strong. Pretty funny, I've been running NB for 7 months straight now and I've never messed around with manganese and zinc separately. I took zinc first and it feels like it opens up something in brain, manganese feels like it tightens it a bit. Together though it feels like detox system got stronger, feel more energy, libido.
 
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#8
The body has efficient regulation system not allowing you to uptake so much that it will hurt itself. Due to this you cant deplete -replete yourself too quickly.
 

bruschi11

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#9
The body has efficient regulation system not allowing you to uptake so much that it will hurt itself. Due to this you cant deplete -replete yourself too quickly.
lol that's what I was thinking and OCGUY too with utilizing glandulars. They are basically food product so didn't think you could really go in excess. But man I got hit by these things in both a good way and bad.

That said, I experimented with manganese a couple hours ago after listening to @HerrFisch . I increased my dose to 10mg (from 3) with my normal 22mg zinc. Major healing reaction- I think the body needed it. Sure I'm getting more fatigued, brain racing- but its providing the detox feeling in my throat I feel in a good way when things go right.

Will definitely be messing with manganese dose from here, 10mg might be too much, might go down to 5. I was taking a very small amount of it for a long time there. It could've been in the 1-2mg range, it was hard to say as I was biting pieces off of a 10mg tablet.
 

bruschi11

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#11
If you dont want to increase the mn dosage, just take it apart from zinc. THat made a big difference for me. Otherwise I need loads of mn.
Thanks for all the input man. Definitely onto something. I’ll try 5mg to 22mg from here and see how that goes. And if it fails I’ll take them apart like you say.
 

bruschi11

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#14
For bowel movements, how do you go with TUDCA, Taurine and artichoke combo?
Thanks for throwing these out there man. Taurine is interesting as practitioner mentioned I could use it. Tudca I’ve never really seen results with.

But realistically I think I’ve gotten to the bottom of this situation. Step #1 was manganese increase. It just turned a part of my detox system on. Probably made b1 work, glutathione system got going so much better.

Step #2 is stopping betaine hcl. I just can’t handle it. Everything was going very well yesterday after manga increase. Took hcl w/ dinner and it took about an hour or two but I felt it. It just paralayzed gut I felt it, along with brain stuff accompanying it.

My gut is pretty great when things are in line w/ nutrition. Ox bile has helped at my best of NB days. Throwing the HCL away for now. No need to add something in so potent.

I got some “beef organs glandular” in mail. May try these to aid iron in a few days rather than the extremely potent “beef spleen glandular”.

After my last liver flush it seeemed like I was golden. Planning on one early this coming week- this time no hcl, beef spleen, ozone after while keeping up w/ manga increase.
 
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Ergogenic Health

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#15
Step #1 was manganese increase
Awesome man, how did you increase manganese?

Good idea to ditch the Betaine HCL, it's never a long term solution anyway.

That beef spleen glandular that you had, was that Ancestral Supplements brand? I might get some, as I have been taking Iron for a long time now, and am definitely feeling better since starting, in terms of energy and pumps in the gym.
 

bruschi11

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#16
Awesome man, how did you increase manganese?

Good idea to ditch the Betaine HCL, it's never a long term solution anyway.

That beef spleen glandular that you had, was that Ancestral Supplements brand? I might get some, as I have been taking Iron for a long time now, and am definitely feeling better since starting, in terms of energy and pumps in the gym.
I was really only taking 1-2mg per 22mg of zinc with my balancing supps. I tried 10mg yesterday and had pretty big healing reaction but felt like it had good impact on my gut, detox system. So today did 5mg per 22mg of zinc and doing well with that.

Yes I’ve used ancestral spleen glandular. I have the “organs glandular” on hand which has spleen, liver, kidneys, heart, pancreas. Will be interesting to see how I react to that. Spleen was freakin crazy the healing reactions.
 

bruschi11

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#17
Been a few weeks since I brought up this issue. Before this, I had my best week of PFS/CFS in the last 20 months. I was getting there with my b2/ balancing protocol and then introduced selenium the week before which really got me going. Then I introduced Iron, had a major healing reaction and then had that great week.

Then this happened. Took a bunch of the iron pills the following week and have not been the same since- I went into extreme fast oxidation. Manganese showed some promise, then I hurt myself with progesterone trying to retain zinc (which I probably did the opposite of, I probably wasted zinc with prog). Then last week before a liver flush, increasing b1 seemed to be helping. But it didn't end up doing the trick.

What I've come down to is this if we're looking at the cortisol production pathway.

Cholesterol --->(iron)Pregnenolone--> (zinc) progesterone -->(iron, selenium) cortisol/ potassium


In parentheses are basically the co-factors involved for cortisol pathways. Iron has gigantic role in converting precursors to cortisol as you can see. Zinc retains potassium (cortisol) and slows down this pathway. But if iron is high it can actually speed it up I'm seeing?

Basically, I believe what happened is I depleted both zinc and potassium with iron. I've been in non-stop fast oxidation because of this and even speeding myself up more with quite a bit of b-vitamins, c, e.

During this colossal fuck up I've been through, something crazy has happened.... my libido has jumped to 100%. Sensitivity, ejaculate load, really everything except for perfect erection strength has been fixed. On the days that I do sleep well, I have great nocturnals and mornings.

Anyways, for majority here this sounds like a dream come true because of the sexual boost. But its not. My brain has been racing like crazy and I get extremely fatigued from it. Cyproheptadine has been my crutch helping me quite a bit, taking almost everyday 1 or 2mg. I got issues right now I need to take care of. I'm seeing that I need to lower b vitamins, c intake and increase minerals- as anyone would with a classic fast oxidizer.

Plan currently is one dose of B's w/ C in morning. Rest of the day 3-4 doses of zinc22mg/manganese3mg , plenty of potassium, calcium, in diet/juices/milks , magnesium baths. Boron at night, vitamin d. . I've considered copper as I've been on crazy anti-copper protocol. Copper helped the one time I took it during this.

I'm definitely in a weird spot with this. Its great to have the sexual things in really an incredible place, but I've got a major problem on my hands with the fast oxidation extremely fast. I get so fatigued from doing anything. Its bad.

I could certainly use some more help here @HerrFisch @Helen if you guys have any other ideas.
 
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HerrFisch

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#18
I went into extreme fast oxidation.
You think you went into fast oxidation because of what symptoms? I dont know if its that easy to tell if you are slow or fast. I think there are a lot of symptoms that could make you think you are "fast" or "slow". And from my experience with supplements esp minerals etc. Changes dont happen that fast. But everybody reacts different I guess.


Manganese showed some promise, then I hurt myself with progesterone trying to retain zinc
DId you take progesterone ?

Basically, I believe what happened is I depleted both zinc and potassium with iron
Fast oxidation but missing zinc and potassium? Only thing I can think of is high Na/K.

What exactly did you take and how much? Whats a bunch of iron pills ?
 

bruschi11

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#19
You think you went into fast oxidation because of what symptoms? I dont know if its that easy to tell if you are slow or fast. I think there are a lot of symptoms that could make you think you are "fast" or "slow". And from my experience with supplements esp minerals etc. Changes dont happen that fast. But everybody reacts different I guess.




DId you take progesterone ?



Fast oxidation but missing zinc and potassium? Only thing I can think of is high Na/K.

What exactly did you take and how much? Whats a bunch of iron pills ?
Yes I took progesterone. Normally, it slows me down a bit. That's what happened at first, then I went fast the 2nd day in. Used for about 5 days, it got worse and worse.

I took spleen glandular pills that supposedly have a ton of iron in them. People on amazon find these as better alternative to taking actual iron. First time I took it had extreme healing reaction, anxiety/ panic attacks needed cyrpohpetadine to stop them. Then I was way better overall the following day.

The next week, I decided to take a full daily dose (I took 6 of them), same thing happened- I needed cyproheptadine to slow me down...... but instead, I never came back and was stuck in fast oxi.

I did some really crazy things- kicking myself for it, but trying to be positive knowing sexuality is fixed, hopefully it keeps. But yes, oxidation is flying. I can tell when cortisol is high, its just most obvious thing in world to me. B vitamins increase it, minerals normally decrease it for me. Anxiety, brain racing, burning out with fatigue in fast oxidation.

On my protocol, I would normally speed up with b vitamins morning, noon, possibly late afternoon if I felt I need it. Slow down with minerals zinc/manga/mag/chromium late afternoon. later in day. But now I'm just flying all around. Cyproheptadine has been a blessing. Zinc/manga in high dose too.

I just had a hair test done yesterday and sent it in. I gotta see whats going on. We might see a crazy hair test lol.
 
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HerrFisch

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#20
I honestly think that its not the case that you got a lot of iron out of those pills. Even if they say it contains a lot. Not in comparison to actual iron pills.

One product I found says 30g of beef spleen contains 12.5 mg iron. So even if you did like 6 x 500mg , its not a lot of iron. Maybe its a good alternative to iron pills because its somehow better useful for most people. But people like us doing other supps as well, uptake %of 20mg supplemental iron can go real low,
But TEI is really low on giving Iron and they give you 20mg. Most docs give you 40mg for anemia for months. And then there are people getting up to 300mg daily. Not saying thats good or right.

Sounds more like you sped up but are missing cortisol to me.

Be careful in case you really have low Potassium. Chromium really does lower Potassium a lot.


Hairtest with all the things you are doing right now? And with knowing that it most likely shows you more like what you did 1-2 months ago ? Oh boy :D I hope at least TEI or ARL this time ^^