Jin Stewart Kills PFS ('Roid Rage)

5 alpha

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Well it's been a week. Things are leveling out I guess. To be very brief:

Improved:
Mood and motivation
Quality of life/world immersion
Skin
Gym

No change:
Sleep (settled back to kinda poor. 5-7 hours of slightly broken sleep.)
Arousal and libido

Worse:
Sexually

Took post-settling bloods, but only male hormone panel.

So, where to go from here? I'll try something I've not tried before. In short, STEROIDS! :eek:

Yes really. Hear me out... a few people have recovered after clomid/nolva PCTs, at least one recovered after just running a cycle (read on propeciahelp but I never did find it again after.) In short, thinking is simple - bump up test and DHT, let the AR see a couple of months of high hormones then cut them and start PCT (clomid and nolva) and hope that restart shuffles the HPTA axis and other animals around enough to right the ship.

Proposed cycle I'll go into more detail about but it'll likely be test prop and masteron prop. Arimidex on hand as well as letro and a bunch of other goodies. Ran a few prohormone cycles in my time so keen to try.

I daresay there'll be MANY opinions on this but I know @joekool will enjoy me logging it!

I will take bloods on-cycle. I wonder if the boost in hormones will make me feel like shit like tribulus does. I migth also start the masteron a week after the test and see if the DHT versus the test do anything. If anything it SHOULD help stem the muscle decline I've had since PFS hit.

Wish me luck, of course any help and hints and opinions welcome.
jin, beware of Arimidex. For those of that get worse from inhibiting estrogen arimidex can be dangerous. I think the inhibiting estrogen risk is more so with us Saw P-PFS Guys but either way be careful with it. There was the guy on PH who took arimidex and got so bad he killed himself. I believe he was regular Fin PFS. There was myself who took Arimidex after my first Saw P mishap while not knowing I had PFS or what PFS even was. All of my sexual sides got worse as soon as I added Arimidex.
 
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jinstewart

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Thanks all. I'll keep an eye out for high E throughout, have done some prohormone cycles in a former life so, although this is my first rodeo, I've seen a rodeo before.

@Helen I did at the end of the summer sit and read JQD's epic thread. I'm definitely not considering this a stilt more a "smash" of the HPTA axis and seeing what the re-shuffling gets me. Could it re-sensitise receptors to DHT and test and then that be enough after PCT to right the ship? Well, I guess nobody knows but a cycle of AAS did fix someone post-PCT once, and clomid (and even nolva, which I'm now getting reservations about) have fixed some.

I'm convinced it's at least worth a go. And I might as well do something.

Are you really against nolvadex? I'm keen to include it in the PCT, but may drop the dose low.

Proposed cycle then is:

Cycle: 8 weeks
Test Prop - 50mg EOD week 1, 75mg EOD weeks 2-8 (MAYBE 100mg EOD weeks 3-8)
Masteron Prop - 50mg EOD weeks 1-8 (MAYBE 75mg EOD weeks 2-8)
HCG - 1000iu - 1x/week, weeks 1-8
Arimidex - 0.5mg ED but go higher as needed to prevent estrogen surges. Or maybe even none. Take when needed.

PCT: 5 weeks
Clomid - (Day1 100mg) 50/50/20/20/0
Nolva - 20/10/10/10/10
Tribulus (MediHerb) - 4 tabs/day split AM/PM -or- Blue Up (stim free) 4tabs/day split AM/PM

On standby:
Letro
Antibiotics (SO many - in case of infection)
 
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MCurtone

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I did 2 PCT's. First PCT was clomid only and when I was done PCT I felt much better and my baseline was improved a lot.

After 2nd PCT I did clomid with nolva and felt awful. Nolva revolves are progestins as I read and heard from Helen. DO NOT USE IT. Rather use Clomid to block estrogen, then use zinc and dostinex to control progesterone and prolactin and this "in theory" will cause the CNS to now use DHT to oppose estrogen instead of progesterone. Helen's original protocol outlines this:

DIRECT FROM HELEN:

2) Second way to downregulate Progesterone receptors, is by blocking Estrogen. NEVER use tamoxifen for this, it increases Progestin activity.
You use Enclomiphene in smaller doses or Clomid in in high dosages 150mg 3 days, 100mg 4 days, 50mg 2 week, 25mg 4 weeks. The whole cure takes place when you start lowering the dosage, so taking Clomid 50mg let’s say for 5 month, does NOTHING (increases testosterone, decreases testosterone). Small doses of Clomid won’t work, they are Estrogenic. From week 2 on Clomid, you need to start taking Zinc with vitamin E. Don't take Zinc before that. Zinc needs to be taken since if not taken while you lower Clomid it won't cure you. Also, you need to use Dostinex, half a pill, once a week. To let your steroid production, go up.


Basically, the idea is to substitute opposition of Estrogen by Progesterone to opposition of Estrogen by DHT. (that is another way to look at it, maybe it will be easier to understand) Only in this case DHT receptors will be upregulated to normal. They are very sensitive to Estrogen. You increase Estrogen and Estrogen receptors with Clomid and then when you start getting off Clomid. it will be leaving your system with Estrogen receptors and Estrogen high. This is a good thing. you also use Dostinex. In this moment, you take Zinc not to allow Progesterone receptors to upregulate. This will make your CNS upregulate DHT receptors. and increase steroid sensitivity and steroid levels for those who have them low.
Therefore, some people have sensitivity to DHT which causes hairloss, since receptors are upregulated. usually happens with high Copper status and goes away with Zinc and Manganese treatment not Finasteride. This should be the hairloss cure instead of Finasteride. And metabolism of Manganese and Zinc is what is impaired in hairloss.
Manganese blocks 3b HSD, Zinc upregulates it, but Manganese increases Prolactin and lowering Estrogen receptors and thus DHT sensitivity, but Zinc increases DHT levels. This should be the pathway of decreasing DHT sensitivity, not thru Progesterone receptors.
Any way out of 3 will work. Then if you experience hairloss after you recover, you can add Zinc Manganese.
Don’t forget Dostinex, without it. Your Estrogen receptors won't get upregulated and that will not make your CNS turn up DHT receptors.
Can't lower Estrogen on Clomid. We want high Estrogen and high Estrogen receptors for your body to upregulate DHT receptors. That is why the whole cure from Clomid comes when it starts leaving your system. And in this very moment you need to be on Dostinex and Zinc and vitamin E. Otherwise your body will try to oppose Estrogen with Progesterone and will try to increase Progesterone receptors, but we don’t want that, we want your body to oppose Estrogen with DHT. I hope it is clear. The whole crash from propecia happens since your brain substitutes Estrogen opposition by Progesterone and not DHT like it is supposed to be.


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Potion

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Thanks all. I'll keep an eye out for high E throughout, have done some prohormone cycles in a former life so, although this is my first rodeo, I've seen a rodeo before.

@Helen I did at the end of the summer sit and read JQD's epic thread. I'm definitely not considering this a stilt more a "smash" of the HPTA axis and seeing what the re-shuffling gets me. Could it re-sensitise receptors to DHT and test and then that be enough after PCT to right the ship? Well, I guess nobody knows but a cycle of AAS did fix someone post-PCT once, and clomid (and even nolva, which I'm now getting reservations about) have fixed some.

I'm convinced it's at least worth a go. And I might as well do something.

Are you really against nolvadex? I'm keen to include it in the PCT, but may drop the dose low.

Proposed cycle then is:

Cycle: 8 weeks
Test Prop - 50mg EOD week 1, 75mg EOD weeks 2-8 (MAYBE 100mg EOD weeks 3-8)
Masteron Prop - 50mg EOD weeks 1-8 (MAYBE 75mg EOD weeks 2-8)
HCG - 1000iu - 1x/week, weeks 1-8
Arimidex - 0.5mg ED but go higher as needed to prevent estrogen surges. Or maybe even none. Take when needed.

PCT: 5 weeks
Clomid - (Day1 100mg) 50/50/20/20/0
Nolva - 20/10/10/10/10
Tribulus (MediHerb) - 4 tabs/day split AM/PM -or- Blue Up (stim free) 4tabs/day split AM/PM

On standby:
Letro
Antibiotics (SO many - in case of infection)
I second the opinions of others that you should not use Nolva.
 
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jinstewart

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Guys that's great thanks, is that the old zinc finger bit too? Lovely - that'll be my PCT then!

So, I'll order in some Caber and proposed cycle looks like:

Cycle: 8 weeks

Test Prop - 50mg EOD week 1, 75mg EOD weeks 2-8 (MAYBE 100mg EOD weeks 3-8)
Masteron Prop - 50mg EOD weeks 1-8
HCG - 1000iu - 1x/week, weeks 1-8
[MAYBE] Arimidex - 0.25mg ED but go higher as needed to prevent estrogen surges. Take when/if needed.

PCT: 6 weeks

Clomid - 150mg days 1-3, 100mg days 4-7, then 50/50/25/25/25
Caber - 0.5mg weekly
Zinc/vitamin E - double RDAs from week 2 on clomid
[MAYBE] Tribulus (MediHerb) - 4 tabs/day split AM/PM -or- Blue Up (stim free) 4tabs/day split AM/PM

On standby:

Letro
 
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jinstewart

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@joekool I've joined the dark side mate! :)

This is day 1.

Might not do daily updates. ;)

First site I chose was right thigh. Will alternate thighs and glutes. For first pins I thought I might as well look at what I’m doing and have a bit of practice.
Quick shower, anti-bac down working area, wiped stopper and drew .5ml test with a 23g and swapped to a 25 to pin. Wiped leg, pulled skin at pin site as I held to z-track, in it went, aspirated, little bubble, eased plunger in over about 30s. Repeated this with the mast, same site. All went textbook as far as I can guess, zero pain and I was VERY excited to get started.

HCG 500iu into pinched stomach fat, now that I literally felt nothing. Lovely. Kept some alcohol hand gel next to me also, and pretty much after every stage I sanitised hands. Will do HCG Mondays and Fridays.

I’m thinking I need to wait a week until I feel anything ofc, but at least got some positivity. Maybe even sooner for me since I’m in a body so long starved of hormones. We’ll see.

Well, that was easy!
 

Helen

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@joekool I've joined the dark side mate! :)

This is day 1.

Might not do daily updates. ;)

First site I chose was right thigh. Will alternate thighs and glutes. For first pins I thought I might as well look at what I’m doing and have a bit of practice.
Quick shower, anti-bac down working area, wiped stopper and drew .5ml test with a 23g and swapped to a 25 to pin. Wiped leg, pulled skin at pin site as I held to z-track, in it went, aspirated, little bubble, eased plunger in over about 30s. Repeated this with the mast, same site. All went textbook as far as I can guess, zero pain and I was VERY excited to get started.

HCG 500iu into pinched stomach fat, now that I literally felt nothing. Lovely. Kept some alcohol hand gel next to me also, and pretty much after every stage I sanitised hands. Will do HCG Mondays and Fridays.

I’m thinking I need to wait a week until I feel anything ofc, but at least got some positivity. Maybe even sooner for me since I’m in a body so long starved of hormones. We’ll see.

Well, that was easy!

this has nothing to do with joekool, he was in low test state)) according to him. Haha. HCG is high test state at all times.
 
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jinstewart

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this has nothing to do with joekool, he was in low test state)) according to him. Haha. HCG is high test state at all times.
Heh, more just joe and I chatted before now and I threatened to try 'roids one day once I'd done enough reading.

Helen this is probably a VERY "low-tech" theory as far as PFS theories go, but so so many recoveries have come about by "bashing" the HPTA axis a bit that I thought it worth a "big bash" with test and mast prop. Any thoughts on it so far?

Most of all, any bloods that you'd like to see whilst I'm doing this? I'll take my "budget hormone panel" a couple of times, which is:

DHEA-S
FSH
LH
Testosterone
F Test. (calc)
SHBG
FAI
Oestradiol
Prolactin
Albumin

And might to a couple of progesterone in there too. Likely end of week 2 will be the first one.
 

Helen

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@jinstewart I think your H1 receptor is affecting your thyroid. This is why on hairtest it shows hypothyroidism.

this might explain your super low estrogen also.

But in any case, lets hope that this cycle does something to H1 receptor.

I like HCG cycles

Which recoveries did you see by doing TRT?
 
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jinstewart

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@jinstewart I think your H1 receptor is affecting your thyroid. This is why on hairtest it shows hypothyroidism.

this might explain your super low estrogen also.

But in any case, lets hope that this cycle does something to H1 receptor.

I like HCG cycles

Which recoveries did you see by doing TRT?
I actually didn't base this off any TRT recoveries, although we have a few in JQD, blshaw from T-nation, the one who did Masteron on propeciahelp and another one (that I REALLY looked for and can't find) who just went and did a cycle of test and PCT and recovered after a few weeks following. All these were pointed out to Axolotl a while back and, although now these topics get censored, he then went on to speculate that some forms of PFS can be fixed (if you're lucky) with a huge challenge to the HPTA axis. This would kinda explain dexa, nolva, clomid and the steroid recoveries to my simple mind anyway.

Lost a little muscle to PFS and always fancied steroids, so started idly planning back in the summer. Test is just test ofc and masteron for any DHT-related benefits.

EDIT - @Helen I found it! Guy did a cycle he doesn't elaborate much on, then an INSANELY heavy PCT and recovered: I think I'm healed after six year nightmare

Summary of his cycle is:
3 months on test (12 weeks call it, not sure on the ester)
PCT:
First day 300 mg clomid. Then 100 mg for the rest of the first two weeks, 50mg on the third week, and no clomid on last week.
20mg tamoxifen daily for the four weeks
3000iu hcg the first day of the four weeks and then about 250-300iu every othe day for the four weeks.

Weird he runs HCG with it! Never heard of that being a good idea as I'd assume it'd keep the pituitary and hypothalmus from producing LH.

Do you think I should try and emulate his PCT or stick with what I've planned above?

Cheers sir. :)
 
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Helen

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I actually didn't base this off any TRT recoveries, although we have a few in JQD, blshaw from T-nation, the one who did Masteron on propeciahelp and another one (that I REALLY looked for and can't find) who just went and did a cycle of test and PCT and recovered after a few weeks following. All these were pointed out to Axolotl a while back and, although now these topics get censored, he then went on to speculate that some forms of PFS can be fixed (if you're lucky) with a huge challenge to the HPTA axis. This would kinda explain dexa, nolva, clomid and the steroid recoveries to my simple mind anyway.

Lost a little muscle to PFS and always fancied steroids, so started idly planning back in the summer. Test is just test ofc and masteron for any DHT-related benefits.

JQD and JN were not recovered on trts etc. JQD regimen does not even work without thyroid. He is on it always he does not get off of it. same as JN, he ran steroids for years. And that did not recover him, now he is on DHEA constantly. to stimulate NDMA receptor. and block gaba A this actually lowers DHT levels.

I did not see one recovery from steroids.tbh Dont forget people post while being on roids that they are recovered. like they go on roids and feel recovered, and post recovered, when in reality nothing happened. like this Masteron Success

masterone has androgenic parameters of 62 , so lower than DHT. means that if given in high DHT case, it will actually blocks DHT.

this is why tons of people felt better on anavar plus testosterone, anavar was blocking DHT receptors.


Masterone in low DHT cases might work similar to r andro.

you have lower DHT case, so hopefully this works for you .

but you also have a problem with histamine receptor


which just kills your thyroid and estrogen, thus no libido.


that H1 receptor problem can solely be a problem.

I wonder if you block H1 just a little bit, with tiny dosages of that medicine, would that give you your libido back or not.


I know you used antihistamine again and felt much better while on it. but may be you just blocked your histamine totally with big dosage.

and obivously if you block it totally you will have zero libido

So I was thinking if you block your histamine receptor just a little bit, would it be enough to raise estrogen.


IN any case, good luck with this run, hopefully it works for you .
 
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Helen

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@jinstewart Also FYI, doing HCG 2-3 times a week, you will never be shut down.


Clomid is ok, since clomid might stimulate NMDA receptors overtime.

this is why I suggested clomid as an original protocol.


But it is hard for it to work, if glutathione is nuked.


But in your case with H1 receptor problem, I think playing with estrogen can fix it. and clomid plays with estrogen.
 
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jinstewart

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@jinstewart Also FYI, doing HCG 2-3 times a week, you will never be shut down.


Clomid is ok, since clomid might stimulate NMDA receptors overtime.

this is why I suggested clomid as an original protocol.


But it is hard for it to work, if glutathione is nuked.


But in your case with H1 receptor problem, I think playing with estrogen can fix it. and clomid plays with estrogen.
Thanks Helen, yes let's have play with it. :)

Would you think it'd be ok whilst on-cycle to try low-dose fexofenadine for a few days just to see if libido happens at all or shall I leave it alone until cycle and PCT are done with? I'd imagine PCT will start 3rd Feb if last pin is Friday 31st Jan (I'll probably run the cycle that long) so this whole affair will be finished 16th March, then I guess we wait a month...
 

Helen

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Thanks Helen, yes let's have play with it. :)

Would you think it'd be ok whilst on-cycle to try low-dose fexofenadine for a few days just to see if libido happens at all or shall I leave it alone until cycle and PCT are done with? I'd imagine PCT will start 3rd Feb if last pin is Friday 31st Jan (I'll probably run the cycle that long) so this whole affair will be finished 16th March, then I guess we wait a month...

just see how you are reacting to TRT for now.
 
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jinstewart

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just see how you are reacting to TRT for now.
Will do, but this is a full-on "cycle" rather than TRT. More of a "smash" to the HPTA axis to try and force a correction. Doses will ultimately be 100mg test prop + 50mg mast prop eod.
 

jinstewart

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We're beginning week 2 then. I must say I'm noticing changes. In short, I'm more "old me" and I feel pretty okay. I can work, rise to challenges, sleep a touch better and sex "feels" like it used to. PE has gone, but I still have massive ED and need LOTS of viagra to perform at all, but did so very admirably on Saturday for hours! :)

Morning woods are happening, although weak/50% they're happening. Penile numbness is slightly worse but I don't care, I think the magic in this will be in the snapback during or post-PCT.

But I'm a concrete and definite part of the world and that seems to improve daily. Long may it carry on. The sour headache feels very much "dealt with" but as if some kind of part of my brain is resting now with that diminished, as if something that needed a rest has just got a little break and is exhausted.

This week I'll up the doses to full whack; 100mg test prop and 50mg mast prop EOD. I "think" I can feel estrogen rising and face is bloated for sure, so will run bloods on Thursday, should be with us by next Monday. I also inject 1000iu HCG on Sundays.

This proves then that, at least with me, increasing androgens WASN'T the part of tribulus that made me feel like shit and, if estrogen was increasing too, not that either. I'd like to measure DHT as well, and see what the masteron is doing to DHT production.

Already I'm set on FuckedNoMore's PCT. I'll deliberately run the HCG out a few weeks prior to PCT so as to achieve full shutdown but minimise the duration of it, then run what he did. I read another recovery that swore HCG was a component of it. For ref that's:

First day 300 mg clomid. Then 100 mg for the rest of the first two weeks, 50mg on the third week, and no clomid on last week.
20mg tamoxifen daily for the four weeks
3000iu hcg the first day of the four weeks and then about 250-300iu every othe day for the four weeks.


I feel pretty ok aside from the ED, can't deny. Wish me luck everyone and I'll update with bloods.
 
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