Jack17 PFS log

Jack17

Well-Known Member
Mar 6, 2018
332
315
63
San Francisco
#1
I took Avodart off an on for about 10 years. I never had a problem with it. I stopped for several months Oct 16 and restarted December 16. January 2017 I was noticed something was significantly wrong with me. I have all the classic symptoms. In February felt great for two weeks then full PSF. I read several boards and started the progesterone selegiline protocol. That worked reasonably well for several weeks but then stopped. I was doing progesterone for two weeks then stopping for four days. Then I tried Pregnelone and that worked but again faded. I tried androhard with initial success but again faded. In August I read posts about high dose clomid. I took 150mg for three days and then 100mg for three days but felt like I was getting worse and I was getting nervous that this dose was just way too much so I just stopped. Within about a week or so I actually felt great. Normal libido and no anxiety and clear thinking. I really thought I was cured. Unfortunately, by October I was relapsing, but for at least 4 weeks I was good. Then I tried progesterone off and on. I take caber 1/2 tab weekly. I take Cysteine, Copper, B5 selenium plus others supplements. I wasn't getting much progress so in January I took 100mg of Zinc. I felt horrible for couple days but then good for two plus weeks but it faded again. I took Ella Feb 1st and I really had a positive effect for couple weeks. Feb 14th I took Rando and had a good effect. I stopped after four days as the benefit was fading. I just finished three days of 10mg of RU. I don't think I have had the same benefit as Ella.
 

Boris

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Oct 3, 2017
2,675
2,212
113
#2
I took Avodart off an on for about 10 years. I never had a problem with it. I stopped for several months Oct 16 and restarted December 16. January 2017 I was noticed something was significantly wrong with me. I have all the classic symptoms. In February felt great for two weeks then full PSF. I read several boards and started the progesterone selegiline protocol. That worked reasonably well for several weeks but then stopped. I was doing progesterone for two weeks then stopping for four days. Then I tried Pregnelone and that worked but again faded. I tried androhard with initial success but again faded. In August I read posts about high dose clomid. I took 150mg for three days and then 100mg for three days but felt like I was getting worse and I was getting nervous that this dose was just way too much so I just stopped. Within about a week or so I actually felt great. Normal libido and no anxiety and clear thinking. I really thought I was cured. Unfortunately, by October I was relapsing, but for at least 4 weeks I was good. Then I tried progesterone off and on. I take caber 1/2 tab weekly. I take Cysteine, Copper, B5 selenium plus others supplements. I wasn't getting much progress so in January I took 100mg of Zinc. I felt horrible for couple days but then good for two plus weeks but it faded again. I took Ella Feb 1st and I really had a positive effect for couple weeks. Feb 14th I took Rando and had a good effect. I stopped after four days as the benefit was fading. I just finished three days of 10mg of RU. I don't think I have had the same benefit as Ella.
Thanks for the detailed log. You are prob one of the very few that tried the clomid route, that is why I don't have it listed as an "official" protocol to try cause it is hit or miss with people.

If you still have some RU, higher doses worked for me and others, 50mg or so was the sweet spot. Another option to look at is water fasting or zinc fiunger/electrolyte and of course herb cycling, if you wanted to try that route.

So you had a snap back effect from high dose zinc only? Interesting. Any reason why you didn't keep repeating that method, say once a week or something?
 
Likes: jacknap

Jack17

Well-Known Member
Mar 6, 2018
332
315
63
San Francisco
#3
Thanks for the detailed log. You are prob one of the very few that tried the clomid route, that is why I don't have it listed as an "official" protocol to try cause it is hit or miss with people.

If you still have some RU, higher doses worked for me and others, 50mg or so was the sweet spot. Another option to look at is water fasting or zinc fiunger/electrolyte and of course herb cycling, if you wanted to try that route.

So you had a snap back effect from high dose zinc only? Interesting. Any reason why you didn't keep repeating that method, say once a week or something?
I just realized something last night. I started Ella Feb 1st and I was worried about the increase in Prolactin so I have been taking Caber 1/4-1/2 tab every several days last month. I started noticing more hair loss. I think the lack of response to RU may have been from the Caber. My thought is that this increased Testosterone then decrease 5alpha reduct and DHT??? Maybe... So instead of getting the benefit from RU I was feeling the side effect to too much Caber. Thoughts?
 

Jack17

Well-Known Member
Mar 6, 2018
332
315
63
San Francisco
#4
Thanks for the detailed log. You are prob one of the very few that tried the clomid route, that is why I don't have it listed as an "official" protocol to try cause it is hit or miss with people.

If you still have some RU, higher doses worked for me and others, 50mg or so was the sweet spot. Another option to look at is water fasting or zinc fiunger/electrolyte and of course herb cycling, if you wanted to try that route.

So you had a snap back effect from high dose zinc only? Interesting. Any reason why you didn't keep repeating that method, say once a week or something?
The snap back from Zinc was temporally related to starting the recommended supplements with Cysteine, Hist, sel, Methionine. So I have continued those. I may try the Zinc again. The interesting thing about Zinc was that I felt soooo bad!!! I looked bad! Testicles ached a lot. It took maybe about 5 days and then better. I am currently taking Rando. Reading IhateFin you feel compelled to take it. I plan to only take for 3-4 days as I really believe the key here is the bounce back, resetting process that happens.
My plan is to either do the progesterone cycle, High dose Clomid ( maybe the reason I benefitted is because I stopped at like day 5 with out taper) or maybe Zinc. I actually had the worst side effect from Zinc. Maybe the key is to have the bad side effect and then the bounce back.
 

Boris

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Oct 3, 2017
2,675
2,212
113
#5
I just realized something last night. I started Ella Feb 1st and I was worried about the increase in Prolactin so I have been taking Caber 1/4-1/2 tab every several days last month. I started noticing more hair loss. I think the lack of response to RU may have been from the Caber. My thought is that this increased Testosterone then decrease 5alpha reduct and DHT??? Maybe... So instead of getting the benefit from RU I was feeling the side effect to too much Caber. Thoughts?
It could be possible but the main mechanism of why some people take caber with the RU is that progesterone drops and this causes estrogen to now become "unopposed". During PFS, progesterone is antagonizing estrogen instead of DHT, so when you take RU/Ella you free up the estrogen since progesterone drops. The increase in estrogen can cause prolactin to rise since estrogen triggers prolactin release. Although, taking an anti prolactin drug is not required, maybe for higher doses or longer runs of RU/ella.
 

Boris

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Oct 3, 2017
2,675
2,212
113
#6
The snap back from Zinc was temporally related to starting the recommended supplements with Cysteine, Hist, sel, Methionine. So I have continued those. I may try the Zinc again. The interesting thing about Zinc was that I felt soooo bad!!! I looked bad! Testicles ached a lot. It took maybe about 5 days and then better. I am currently taking Rando. Reading IhateFin you feel compelled to take it. I plan to only take for 3-4 days as I really believe the key here is the bounce back, resetting process that happens.
My plan is to either do the progesterone cycle, High dose Clomid ( maybe the reason I benefitted is because I stopped at like day 5 with out taper) or maybe Zinc. I actually had the worst side effect from Zinc. Maybe the key is to have the bad side effect and then the bounce back.
Same bro, zinc alone fucks me. Zinc increases progesterone, but the body can't handle it properly. Your body is already pissing out zinc, so you are castrating yourself further. But high dose, is different since you are "forcing" it onto your body. There hasn't been many logs with high dose zinc trials, but I did post here a link to someone that did do it, I can't find the post at the moment.
 

Jack17

Well-Known Member
Mar 6, 2018
332
315
63
San Francisco
#7
Same bro, zinc alone fucks me. Zinc increases progesterone, but the body can't handle it properly. Your body is already pissing out zinc, so you are castrating yourself further. But high dose, is different since you are "forcing" it onto your body. There hasn't been many logs with high dose zinc trials, but I did post here a link to someone that did do it, I can't find the post at the moment.
Right... Thanks for the info. There was this guy that was taking higher doses of Zinc like every three days. That's why I tried it. I've been talking with bruschi11. I'm starting topical progesterone now. I'm six days of RU. Hope this helps. Thanks for your help!
 

Jack17

Well-Known Member
Mar 6, 2018
332
315
63
San Francisco
#8
I am so "over" having this problem. It's like a nightmare that you can't wake up from. It's effecting my marriage. I spend too much time at work worrying and reading about it. I sure hope that we can make good progress. I know some on the board have already done that. And you can always imaging worse situations and I don't mean to be a downer, just extremely frustrated. I can see how it would ruin marriages, families. What's completely crazy is that like the month before I restarted Avodart, I came across Propecia help, randomly. I started reading the posts and thought it must be a rare side effect because I had never heard of it. I stupidly restarted a month later because I thought my hair seemed like it was shading. I wasn't even considering that I could possibly be harmed from this because I had been on and off it so many times in the past. I feel so stupid! to do that. I even had the classic improvement in February. I felt great! I mean better than I have in forever. And then it just faded away. I've been watching this board since November and the Peat board before that. Glad I joined. I've already had great recommendations. I appreciate it!
 

vicecaz

Well-Known Member
Oct 7, 2017
280
249
43
22
#9
Some were on the same place you are now a few years ago, they're now free of this PFS and it's just a nightmare of the past for them. They also see this experience as a positive one given the knowledge regarding health they acquired, and discipline they had to implement to get out of this, you'll be there

We have protocols that are proven to work , Cdnuts being the most successful as of today, as well as suggestion in this forum, mainly prog/cortisol blocker, electrolytes, zinc finger.. I would suggest reading more and more about people's log . Once you know why and what to expect when you're trying something, it makes the process much easier

Listen to your symptoms, experiment, and don't stop working on it
 
Likes: wuf

Niles

Well-Known Member
Jan 25, 2018
702
915
93
28
NYC
#10
I'm in my 3rd month now of seriously going after PFS, and I've found that the first and most important lesson to be learned is patience and persistence. I'm still working on both of these, but it is absolutely crucial that you don't go bouncing from one treatment to another week-to-week, because it will often take at least a few weeks to gauge the true effect that any given protocol will have on you. Of course, that isn't to say that if something is making you feel significantly worse that you should power through, unless there is solid evidence for a potential snap-back. But, a solid foundation of diet, sleep, exercise, detox, and mindfulness should be built and maintained before going into any hormonal protocols.

There is no silver bullet. Getting better is a matter of rebalancing your body chemistry, which will require subtle nudges to slowly tip the scale towards homeostasis, rather than dropping a 20lb weight on on one end which will only put your body into a different kind of imbalance. I feel that many of the guys you see on propeciahelp or solvepfs are stuck in PFS because they mess around too much with exogenous hormones, AI's, SERMs and the like without having a solid foundation of health or an understanding of their body chemistry. Hormonal protocols do have their place in recovery, but they are absolutely secondary to the necessary holistic foundation.

Also, stress management is crucial. You'll see a lot of the guys who cured themselves say things like, "you've got to have the right mindset", or, "you've got to believe in the cure", etc. I think that this ultimately boils down to stress management via optimism, e.g. not catastrophizing your condition, not projecting your current negatives into the future, and remaining optimistic in your progress. It sounds kinda new-age-y, but it's really not... This will help balance cortisol and adrenaline, and the rest of your hormones in turn.
 
Last edited:

Jack17

Well-Known Member
Mar 6, 2018
332
315
63
San Francisco
#11
Thanks for the detailed log. You are prob one of the very few that tried the clomid route, that is why I don't have it listed as an "official" protocol to try cause it is hit or miss with people.

If you still have some RU, higher doses worked for me and others, 50mg or so was the sweet spot. Another option to look at is water fasting or zinc fiunger/electrolyte and of course herb cycling, if you wanted to try that route.

So you had a snap back effect from high dose zinc only? Interesting. Any reason why you didn't keep repeating that method, say once a week or something?
Hi...I decided to try a progesterone/ RU. Especially because I have just finished RU and some have said the progesterone had been benefical. Do you have a good source for RU? I thought I had read on the board but can't find the post. Do you have an opinion on RU vs Ella? I thought Ella actually may have worked better when I tried beginning of Feb, but not sure. I have started a protocol with progesterone topically around 10mg daily for 14 days then off for 4 days. Thinking about taking RU on off days. What do you think? I'm actually feeling better past two days. Nothing dramatic but it is significant.
Thanks for you help!
 

Boris

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Oct 3, 2017
2,675
2,212
113
#12
Hi...I decided to try a progesterone/ RU. Especially because I have just finished RU and some have said the progesterone had been benefical. Do you have a good source for RU? I thought I had read on the board but can't find the post. Do you have an opinion on RU vs Ella? I thought Ella actually may have worked better when I tried beginning of Feb, but not sure. I have started a protocol with progesterone topically around 10mg daily for 14 days then off for 4 days. Thinking about taking RU on off days. What do you think? I'm actually feeling better past two days. Nothing dramatic but it is significant.
Thanks for you help!
RU source is in the source section. I prefer RU over Ella since it blocks cortisol pretty strongly as well.
 

Jack17

Well-Known Member
Mar 6, 2018
332
315
63
San Francisco
#13
I definitely have noticed an improvement. I am 12 days off RU and 6 days on progesterone topically 10mg daily. I feel more normal. Definitely better sensation and Libido up about to 70% of normal. I don't want to over state but I think I could be better now than I have been since developing this. I plan to do Progesterone for 10-14 days and then will do RU 1-3 days while off Progesterone.
 

wuf

Well-Known Member
Oct 4, 2017
1,071
320
83
#14
I definitely have noticed an improvement. I am 12 days off RU and 6 days on progesterone topically 10mg daily. I feel more normal. Definitely better sensation and Libido up about to 70% of normal. I don't want to over state but I think I could be better now than I have been since developing this. I plan to do Progesterone for 10-14 days and then will do RU 1-3 days while off Progesterone.
..Just be carefull of progesterone.
I have heart of people doing good and finishing in a worse situation after progesterone.
I would try it for very little days first to see what happens.
 

joekool

Moderator
Oct 4, 2017
617
548
93
#15
Hey small improvements are better than nothing. It’s definitely an interesting use case so keep us posted. We have RU and prog theories ... thank you for joining
 

Jack17

Well-Known Member
Mar 6, 2018
332
315
63
San Francisco
#16
I'm interested in your theories.
I tried Progesterone topically last May and had a good effect but it faded after several weeks. I'm applying to scrotum as I think a possible cause of failure is that when applying topically to arms/ chest, the hormone accumulates in fat tissue. I think the time off to bounce back might be important that progesterone gets out of your system. No fat tissue in scrotum skin. Light and others used this method. I don't think it made me worse last May. I've read posts where it did make some worse.
 

Jack17

Well-Known Member
Mar 6, 2018
332
315
63
San Francisco
#17
This is day 7 on progesterone and day 14 post RU. I am feeling better every day. Today morning wood stronger than ever and lasted for quite a while after I awoke. I just feel more normal. I can feel the testosterone in my body like before. Every thing seems close to normal except libido is still off a bit, maybe at 80% normal now. Only down side is that i have notice more hair loss and have the scalp itch. Hopefully this is the protocol to cure this crap! I would recommend it to anyone interested.
 

Boris

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Oct 3, 2017
2,675
2,212
113
#18
This is day 7 on progesterone and day 14 post RU. I am feeling better every day. Today morning wood stronger than ever and lasted for quite a while after I awoke. I just feel more normal. I can feel the testosterone in my body like before. Every thing seems close to normal except libido is still off a bit, maybe at 80% normal now. Only down side is that i have notice more hair loss and have the scalp itch. Hopefully this is the protocol to cure this crap! I would recommend it to anyone interested.
Awesome, the scalp itch and hair loss means you are becoming DHT sensitive again which is a good thing.

Which progesterone are you using and how much (only 10mg)?
 

Jack17

Well-Known Member
Mar 6, 2018
332
315
63
San Francisco
#19
The bonvea brand that Light at end and the other guys recommended. I am running out and noticed it's not available so I'd be interested in what you've heard about other brands.
 

MNK99

Well-Known Member
Nov 6, 2017
3,888
2,534
113
International Waters - Whaling
www.youtube.com
LOCATION
God's Imagination./Limbo.
  • Deleted by MNK99
Show…

bruschi11

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2017
2,222
1,940
113
31
Boston, MA
#20
@Jack17 I know you mentioned doing RU again after a prog cycle.

I'd probably only do RU monthly at the veryyyyy most. It has such a long half life- so even after you took it (you're 14 days post RU) that stuff is still in your system. That's why I think the prog post RU is important to continue with as we want to keep prog high while RU is in system. At least that's the case for guys like you and I who react well to it.