Interesting protocol for restoring glutathione and functional vitamin B2. ( CFS)

bruschi11

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2017
2,323
2,015
113
31
Boston, MA
#61
Noticed the one rec'd moly bodybio liquid is ammonium form, is this ok? not in sodium form?
ammonium is ok per somewhere on Greg’s site or his email to me.
 

Ingeno

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2018
440
233
43
London
#62
Can you share what you are taking with links?
Started today with the Potassium Iodide Liquid Iodine (2 oz), bought it in a local shop in The Netherlands.

Just ordered the Sodium Selenite: https://iherb.com/pr/Nutricology-Selenium-Solution-8-fl-oz-236-ml/17257

And still looking for the Molybdenum, but this one might work as @bruschi11 asked greg about this form: Nutricology, Liquid Molybdenum, 1 fl oz (30 ml)

Still need to figure out the low dose vitamin B2/B1, might dissolve 100mg capsules in water and dose accordingly. Anyone knows the shelf life of the B vitamins once dissolved in water?
 

Kjbigman

Well-Known Member
May 25, 2019
193
30
28
27
USA
#63
Started today with the Potassium Iodide Liquid Iodine (2 oz), bought it in a local shop in The Netherlands.

Just ordered the Sodium Selenite: https://iherb.com/pr/Nutricology-Selenium-Solution-8-fl-oz-236-ml/17257

And still looking for the Molybdenum, but this one might work as @bruschi11 asked greg about this form: Nutricology, Liquid Molybdenum, 1 fl oz (30 ml)

Still need to figure out the low dose vitamin B2/B1, might dissolve 100mg capsules in water and dose accordingly. Anyone knows the shelf life of the B vitamins once dissolved in water?
@Ingeno I was looking at TEI supplements recommended to me. They recommended the Para-Pak which doesn't emphasize b2 for example. Yet my genetics show MTHR reduction. I wonder if maybe TEI would fail to account for these individual genetic variants? Basically I am confused at the moment because the two protocols seem to be in opposition. My gut is telling me to go with this protocol but TEI seems to be legit since it is based on the hair test itself. I'm thinking maybe doing this protocol 3 months, then redo hair test and TEI might work better after? Idk. Keep us updated on how this goes for you since you have already tried TEI.
 

Ingeno

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2018
440
233
43
London
#64
@Ingeno I was looking at TEI supplements recommended to me. They recommended the Para-Pak which doesn't emphasize b2 for example. Yet my genetics show MTHR reduction. I wonder if maybe TEI would fail to account for these individual genetic variants? Basically I am confused at the moment because the two protocols seem to be in opposition. My gut is telling me to go with this protocol but TEI seems to be legit since it is based on the hair test itself. I'm thinking maybe doing this protocol 3 months, then redo hair test and TEI might work better after? Idk. Keep us updated on how this goes for you since you have already tried TEI.
There is no definitive answer bud, I've tried TEI for over a year with very minor improvements. Maybe TEI is not accounting for the damage that FIN caused and maybe I'm not responding well to their approach. I've contacted a practitioner who is working with ARL for a very long time and has seen hundreds of hair tests. I've showed him my 4 TEI hair tests and he was actually shocked about the results and supplements TEI was recommending to me, he didn't agree with it at all and told me that ARL would treat me totally different. He also told me I should have seen improvements within 3 to 6 months and that is what usually happens with his patients. Of course he works with ARL so I need to take his advice with a grain of salt, but so far TEI hasn't been that great for me and I'm more tempted to try ARL next time. ARL also puts more focus on detoxing the body, which I might need after FIN damage, and recognizes more patterns like the 4 lows.

My TEI cycle is coming to an end and for me it is a good moment to try this protocol, it is pretty cheap and I like the theory behind it and I don't think it can cause much damage if it doesn't work. I might even respond better to ARL/TEI after I ran this protocol. Anyway, time will tell.
 
Likes: Kjbigman

Helen

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Oct 5, 2017
6,209
5,982
113
#65
@Ingeno I was looking at TEI supplements recommended to me. They recommended the Para-Pak which doesn't emphasize b2 for example. Yet my genetics show MTHR reduction. I wonder if maybe TEI would fail to account for these individual genetic variants? Basically I am confused at the moment because the two protocols seem to be in opposition. My gut is telling me to go with this protocol but TEI seems to be legit since it is based on the hair test itself. I'm thinking maybe doing this protocol 3 months, then redo hair test and TEI might work better after? Idk. Keep us updated on how this goes for you since you have already tried TEI.

lets not forget that MTHR uses NADPH also. along with FAD

and during G6PD deficiency , NADPH is not made and this causes hemolytic anemia, without any FAD problems. Folate is lost from the cell during hemolytic anemia and G6PD deficiency. and then folate deficiency can cause methylation block. and actually people with low g6pd and NADPH crash from molybdenum foods like beans . SO if low DHT people would not crash on moly , then it will show that B2 is more deficient than NADPH. and may be by blocking NADPH with fin, that caused FAD deficiency.
 
Likes: Kjbigman

Kjbigman

Well-Known Member
May 25, 2019
193
30
28
27
USA
#66
There is no definitive answer bud, I've tried TEI for over a year with very minor improvements. Maybe TEI is not accounting for the damage that FIN caused and maybe I'm not responding well to their approach. I've contacted a practitioner who is working with ARL for a very long time and has seen hundreds of hair tests. I've showed him my 4 TEI hair tests and he was actually shocked about the results and supplements TEI was recommending to me, he didn't agree with it at all and told me that ARL would treat me totally different. He also told me I should have seen improvements within 3 to 6 months and that is what usually happens with his patients. Of course he works with ARL so I need to take his advice with a grain of salt, but so far TEI hasn't been that great for me and I'm more tempted to try ARL next time. ARL also puts more focus on detoxing the body, which I might need after FIN damage, and recognizes more patterns like the 4 lows.

My TEI cycle is coming to an end and for me it is a good moment to try this protocol, it is pretty cheap and I like the theory behind it and I don't think it can cause much damage if it doesn't work. I might even respond better to ARL/TEI after I ran this protocol. Anyway, time will tell.
I agree about the detox stuff. Have you ever checked to make sure you don't have Gilbert's or any detox gene variants?

Also, are you adding any of the oils that he recommends or just doing the standard protocol that @bruschi11 linked?
 

Kjbigman

Well-Known Member
May 25, 2019
193
30
28
27
USA
#67
lets not forget that MTHR uses NADPH also. along with FAD

and during G6PD deficiency , NADPH is not made and this causes hemolytic anemia, without any FAD problems. Folate is lost from the cell.

and then folate deficiency can cause methylation block.
So you are basically saying that the intervention should be targeting NADPH (and G6PD), not at FAD. My genetic report says no G6PD problem. Also my last RBC count was fine. But who knows, because in the past I did have weird signs of hemolytic anemia. Helen do you think that Thorne Elite could substitute Greg's protocol as a convenient multi?
 

Kjbigman

Well-Known Member
May 25, 2019
193
30
28
27
USA
#68
Also, if the problem is a block at MTHR due to NADPH, not FAD, maybe simply supplementing 5MTHF would work. But if the problem of NADPH deficiency is caused by G6PD, then unfortunately any folate will be lost from the cell. But anemia should be easily proven on a blood test dude
 

Kjbigman

Well-Known Member
May 25, 2019
193
30
28
27
USA
#69
lets not forget that MTHR uses NADPH also. along with FAD

and during G6PD deficiency , NADPH is not made and this causes hemolytic anemia, without any FAD problems. Folate is lost from the cell during hemolytic anemia and G6PD deficiency. and then folate deficiency can cause methylation block. and actually people with low g6pd and NADPH crash from molybdenum foods like beans . SO if low DHT people would not crash on moly , then it will show that B2 is more deficient than NADPH. and may be by blocking NADPH with fin, that caused FAD deficiency.
Lol so I guess if I try this protocol and crash on the molybdenum we will confirm it
 

Helen

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Oct 5, 2017
6,209
5,982
113
#70
Also, if the problem is a block at MTHR due to NADPH, not FAD, maybe simply supplementing 5MTHF would work. But if the problem of NADPH deficiency is caused by G6PD, then unfortunately any folate will be lost from the cell. But anemia should be easily proven on a blood test dude

you are on fin, your NADPH deficiency is caused by being on FIN)) hahah and not g6pd.
 

Ingeno

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2018
440
233
43
London
#71
I agree about the detox stuff. Have you ever checked to make sure you don't have Gilbert's or any detox gene variants?

Also, are you adding any of the oils that he recommends or just doing the standard protocol that @bruschi11 linked?
Nope haven't checked. Going to add the correct B12 forms but not sure about the oils, I might go for a sublingual option.
 
Likes: Kjbigman

Kjbigman

Well-Known Member
May 25, 2019
193
30
28
27
USA
#72
Screen Shot 2019-12-03 at 2.33.07 PM.png
Basically, I don't think FAD requires NADPH. Glutathione ends up requiring FAD+NADPH, and Glutathione is low in PFS. So people with PFS are blocking one of these....but which one? I haven't found any confirmation that it is NADPH per se that is blocked. It could be that the issue is with B2.
 

Helen

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Oct 5, 2017
6,209
5,982
113
#73
Lol so I guess if I try this protocol and crash on the molybdenum we will confirm it

you are on fin right now blocking NADPH. body should compensate and increases INSULIN and G6PD enzyme

If this compensation is not working, then you crash with hemolytic anemia.


Question is when you come off what happens. G6PD could be upregulated, and may be then you have too much NADPH, and these are high DHT cases.

may be this high NADPH spends too much FAD.
 
Likes: Kjbigman

Kjbigman

Well-Known Member
May 25, 2019
193
30
28
27
USA
#74
you are on fin, your NADPH deficiency is caused by being on FIN)) hahah and not g6pd.
So maybe this protocol would work. Because I think it addresses my personal deficiencies as well as solves the fin issue. Because dude, simply taking Methylfolate should work actually if that's the case!
 

opiath

Well-Known Member
Oct 18, 2017
81
89
18
Bulgaria
#75
What is so groundbreaking about this protocol?
I don't see how you can fix NADPH by activating b2.

Iodine/Selenium/Molybdenum are very hard to get deficient in.
Iodine you eat salt for a couple of weeks and you're good for the year.
Selenium is full from eating eggs, wheat or fish. Everyone eats at least one of these three.
Molybdenum you eat once in a month beans or lentils and you're good.

What is the next step? b2/folate/mb12.
Good if you're missing them, bad if you're not.
Taking methyl b12 and active folate is going to force methylation even if your body is pushing the brakes.
If your methylation is not needed you just kill niacin and histamine.

FAD will be up when NADPH goes up.
 
Likes: Helen

Kjbigman

Well-Known Member
May 25, 2019
193
30
28
27
USA
#76
I guess the question then is how to increase NADPH pool. If NADPH is increased, as you say FAD goes up, which then equals glutathione restoration. And this is after all Operation Restore Glutathione...

Helen said Malic acid. There are also zinc/manganese/magnesium. Not sure what else.

I still want to give this a shot though because my genetics do say that I will be deficient in methylfolate and b2. My b12 was high as well which does suggest some kind of functional b2 deficiency.
 

Helen

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Oct 5, 2017
6,209
5,982
113
#77
I guess the question then is how to increase NADPH pool. If NADPH is increased, as you say FAD goes up, which then equals glutathione restoration. And this is after all Operation Restore Glutathione...

Helen said Malic acid. There are also zinc/manganese/magnesium. Not sure what else.

I still want to give this a shot though because my genetics do say that I will be deficient in methylfolate and b2. My b12 was high as well which does suggest some kind of functional b2 deficiency.
b12 is recyced by glutathione reductase, which is FAD enzyme with NADPH cofactor.
 
Likes: Kjbigman

Kjbigman

Well-Known Member
May 25, 2019
193
30
28
27
USA
#78
There is no definitive answer bud, I've tried TEI for over a year with very minor improvements. Maybe TEI is not accounting for the damage that FIN caused and maybe I'm not responding well to their approach. I've contacted a practitioner who is working with ARL for a very long time and has seen hundreds of hair tests. I've showed him my 4 TEI hair tests and he was actually shocked about the results and supplements TEI was recommending to me, he didn't agree with it at all and told me that ARL would treat me totally different. He also told me I should have seen improvements within 3 to 6 months and that is what usually happens with his patients. Of course he works with ARL so I need to take his advice with a grain of salt, but so far TEI hasn't been that great for me and I'm more tempted to try ARL next time. ARL also puts more focus on detoxing the body, which I might need after FIN damage, and recognizes more patterns like the 4 lows.

My TEI cycle is coming to an end and for me it is a good moment to try this protocol, it is pretty cheap and I like the theory behind it and I don't think it can cause much damage if it doesn't work. I might even respond better to ARL/TEI after I ran this protocol. Anyway, time will tell.
I will do the same I think, but add NAC and Calcium D-glucarate to this (cuz I have Gilberts). then run TEI after.
 

Boris

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Oct 3, 2017
2,706
2,239
113
#79
Amazing. Guys, what about the Thorne elite supplement? It has literally everything in the same (max) doses prescribed in the protocol. The iodide is in the proper form. It is tough to buy up all these supplements separately so I was thinking of just using this because it is a convenient multivitamin. The only problem is you can't ratchet up the dose so you have to take them all at once at the highest dose. So you might deal with some side-effects at first.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/slredirect/picassoRedirect.html/ref=pa_sp_atf_aps_sr_pg1_1?ie=UTF8&adId=A10323773PXP4SE7GLU6O&url=/Thorne-Research-Multi-Vitamin-M-High-Performance/dp/B01M5JLXQG/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIs8-expqa5gIVVP_jBx1wLgnyEAAYAiAAEgIORfD_BwE&hvadid=153749866687&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9018505&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1t2&hvqmt=e&hvrand=11321110291181952593&hvtargid=kwd-269302656145&hydadcr=21188_9333879&keywords=thorne+elite&qid=1575401145&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&qualifier=1575401145&id=8788422790830936&widgetName=sp_atf

ALSO. Just a side-note but it turns out that I have Gilbert's syndrome as well as a MTHR variant which reduces methylfolate. So it could be we all have these variants which is why fin kills us.
The other forms are not proper though for selenium and moly
 

Helen

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Oct 5, 2017
6,209
5,982
113
#80
What is so groundbreaking about this protocol?
I don't see how you can fix NADPH by activating b2.

Iodine/Selenium/Molybdenum are very hard to get deficient in.
Iodine you eat salt for a couple of weeks and you're good for the year.
Selenium is full from eating eggs, wheat or fish. Everyone eats at least one of these three.
Molybdenum you eat once in a month beans or lentils and you're good.

What is the next step? b2/folate/mb12.
Good if you're missing them, bad if you're not.
Taking methyl b12 and active folate is going to force methylation even if your body is pushing the brakes.
If your methylation is not needed you just kill niacin and histamine.

FAD will be up when NADPH goes up.


iodide converts into iodine with the help of DUOX. which is NADPH oxidase

which is FAD enzyme but uses NADPH . So if there is no NADPH then FAD is not needed. and there is no iodine.

Selenium is part of glutathione peroxidase, which uses glutathione as a cofactor. and this glutathione is recycled by glutathione reductase which FAD enzyme with NADPH as a cofactor.

NADPH is provided to glutathione reductase by CATALASE which acts like a pool of NADPH holding onto 7 NADPH)))


So if there is no NADPH, this all falls apart.

FIN kills NADPH and this all falls apart

body compensates by increasing INSULIN and probably pumping G6PD if it can.


if it cant' then hemolytic Anemia. and crash while on FIN.