Interesting protocol for restoring glutathione and functional vitamin B2. ( CFS)

Helen

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I've also been struggling to get the dosages right and feel I'm missing cofactors Helen is talking about. It has been a wonky ride so far, some days I sleep great, some days I have insane insomnia and hunger. Some days extremely tired and some days great energy for the gym. Some days hair loss, some days zero scalp itch. Must be thyroid and adrenalin going all places. I might add a good multi or go the ARL route, the original Greg's protocol isn't sufficient in my opinion and is lacking other important nutrients in the long run.

you are not taking full protocol yet man. give it a chance with the multi which is rec'd


Please try to follow the protocol so we access it correctly.
 
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Ingeno

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you are not taking full protocol yet man. give it a chance with the multi which is rec'd


Please try to follow the protocol so we access it correctly.
I agree, but just saying that the basic protocol with only iodide, selenium and moly, gives me all kind ups and downs. I've tried the sodium selenite many times and I just can't handle it, it destroys my sleep, even in small doses of 20mcg. When I eat selenium foods, like eggs and sardines, I do well on it and don't give me insomnia.

Maybe I handle the multi better with all the cofactors, also some rec'd multi's contain methyl B vitamins, what do you think of that?
 
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bruschi11

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I've also been struggling to get the dosages right and feel I'm missing cofactors Helen is talking about. It has been a wonky ride so far, some days I sleep great, some days I have insane insomnia and hunger. Some days extremely tired and some days great energy for the gym. Some days hair loss, some days zero scalp itch. Must be thyroid and adrenalin going all places. I might add a good multi or go the ARL route, the original Greg's protocol isn't sufficient in my opinion and is lacking other important nutrients in the long run.
Or course it isn’t sufficient in your case. We are coming to the conclusion that b2 is #1 in this protocol.

Helens words above support this- I’m coming to conclusion that the goal of this protocol is to become sufficient in b2 and then let the co-factors do what they need to do in converting FMN to FAD and increasing thyroid hormones.

B2 is the most important piece to this protocol there’s no doubt in my mind. Finding the correct dose to stay steady on and then low doses of your own specific co-factor needs is how I see it. In time, as b2 becomes more and more sufficient, you may need higher dose of co-factors as they may become depleted as b2 becomes more sufficient.

Thoughts @Helen ?
 
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Helen

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@bruschi11 IMO people who are toxic in shit like mercury etc. what happens is the body uses transsulfation pathway, to get to sulphate, to detox that stuff.

SO this is why their methylation stops. since thyroid stops.


b2 and molydenum are used to make sulphate, which then detoxes you.

I think a lot of people spend b2 there.


SO taking magnesium sulphate, epson salts, which I mentioned in electrolytes protocol. Spares that need,


transulfation pathway stops. and methylation and thyroid restore.


there is a cool protocol https://www.mercuryfreekids.org/solutions


Look at it IDENTICAL to electrolytes protocol


Also look at what supps there are selenium iodine and moly.



I remember when I was doing liver flushes i was drinking this magnesium sulphate non stop. and I noticed I was getting younger younger younger on it.
 

Ingeno

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Or course it isn’t sufficient in your case. We are coming to the conclusion that b2 is #1 in this protocol.

Helens words above support this- I’m coming to conclusion that the goal of this protocol is to become sufficient in b2 and then let the co-factors do what they need to do in converting FMN to FAD and increasing thyroid hormones.

B2 is the most important piece to this protocol there’s no doubt in my mind. Finding the correct dose to stay steady on and then low doses of your own specific co-factor needs is how I see it. In time, as b2 becomes more and more sufficient, you may need higher dose of co-factors as they may become depleted as b2 becomes more sufficient.

Thoughts @Helen ?
The idea was to build up buffers of iodine, selenium and moly before going on B2. I can't even tolerate selenium, maybe because I'm sufficient, or maybe because I'm missing other minerals that are needed to support the increase of thyroid. I'm on B2 5-10mg twice a day and so far it greatly increases my scalp itch.

And going on B2 too soon would be burning through the 3 minerals too fast, even becoming worse. So there is a fine line of balance and precision needed.
 

bruschi11

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This might be more so my case than yours. We are all different and it comes down to your given body chemistry. B-2->FMN is gigantic for me- especially now that I just depleted them both to FAD for 10 days due to the excess moly.

But originally in October- B2 megadose was the first thing that hit me that made me open my eyes to understand that "HEY- there's something out there that can REALLY speed this whole nutritional balancing thing up." Its like the whole right side of my brain woke up. Its crazy.

I was depleted of it. You may be different and have relatively sufficient b2 while depleted co-factors.

What we are learning from Greg is how important this entire pathway truly is. That is what is most important here.
 

bruschi11

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The idea was to build up buffers of iodine, selenium and moly before going on B2. I can't even tolerate selenium, maybe because I'm sufficient, or maybe because I'm missing other minerals that are needed to support the increase of thyroid. I'm on B2 5-10mg twice a day and so far it greatly increases my scalp itch.

And going on B2 too soon would be burning through the 3 minerals too fast, even becoming worse. So there is a fine line of balance and precision needed.
Exactly- you were sufficient in selenium in your hair test. There's a 50/50 chance you're sufficient in iodine... maybe even greater since selenium is sufficient.

I'm reacting badly to iodine man. That's why I'm saying all this. We just need to look at this as a major biochemical pathway and have to govern the approach to it based on case.
 

bruschi11

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@bruschi11 IMO people who are toxic in shit like mercury etc. what happens is the body uses transsulfation pathway, to get to sulphate, to detox that stuff.

SO this is why their methylation stops. since thyroid stops.


b2 and molydenum are used to make sulphate, which then detoxes you.

I think a lot of people spend b2 there.


SO taking magnesium sulphate, epson salts, which I mentioned in electrolytes protocol. Spares that need,


transulfation pathway stops. and methylation and thyroid restore.


there is a cool protocol Solutions — Mercury Free Kids


Look at it IDENTICAL to electrolytes protocol


Also look at what supps there are selenium iodine and moly.



I remember when I was doing liver flushes i was drinking this magnesium sulphate non stop. and I noticed I was getting younger younger younger on it.
First off, I don't know if people think I'm a little fan boy to you here and will be like "oh bruschi is just is a kiss ass." No.

A) I'm toxic in mercury.

B) In late 2017 when I cured bad bad CFS over several months- I did magnesium sulfate baths twice weekly at very least. Sometimes with a full bag of Epsom salts haha one of the Lyme docs over in Europe recommended this. On Sunday after Epsom salt bath I felt so freakin strong after coming out of a crash from moly. I enjoyed a family dinner and wasn't afraid to have a couple drinks with it. The body acted like the alcohol didn't even happen a few hours later- detoxed itself incredibly.

C) I've only read about 1/4th of that protocol you posted. But yes- this is exactly what happened to me when I got better. I started making bowel movements. Then I started making larger bowel movements and would happen most days after I eat breakfast. Then I'd start making bowel movements every single day I'd wake up in the morning. And after majority of meals. My gut got so strong and just manufactured my meals, used for energy, and removed the waste products incredibly.

D) Once I was out of CFS and constipation issues, liver flushing was incredible. Libido would increase during them. I looked so young, my hair was so thick, skin, body comp, hell my dentist for first time ever said my teeth were in incredible shape. I was doing them every 2-3 weeks. Time to begin again.

E) A CFS recovery story I followed from late 2000s big into pathogens, some rife. Well one of his big things was drink 2 spoonfulls of Epsom Salts daily. I actually was doing this for a bit as well.

But it seems like b2 and magnesium are likely the most advantageous nutrients, minerals I've used during my 2.5 years of battling this.
 

Ingeno

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Exactly- you were sufficient in selenium in your hair test. There's a 50/50 chance you're sufficient in iodine... maybe even greater since selenium is sufficient.

I'm reacting badly to iodine man. That's why I'm saying all this. We just need to look at this as a major biochemical pathway and have to govern the approach to it based on case.
Couldn't it be halides leaving the body and iodide taking their place? I mean 75-150mcg iodide is pretty low, even Dr. Wilson is a big fan of kelp and in his experience almost everyone can handle it, according to him we need several grams of iodine.

by Lawrence Wilson, MD

He also says to build up slowly if you experience healing reactions.

"The reactions to taking kelp are usually healing reactions. They occur because kelp helps to push out mercury or one of the iodine antagonists – bromine, fluorine and chlorine. In our experience, these reactions subside after a while as the body detoxifies if one follows a development program."
 

bruschi11

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Couldn't it be halides leaving the body and iodide taking their place? I mean 75-150mcg iodide is pretty low, even Dr. Wilson is a big fan of kelp and in his experience almost everyone can handle it, according to him we need several grams of iodine.

by Lawrence Wilson, MD

He also says to build up slowly if you experience healing reactions.

"The reactions to taking kelp are usually healing reactions. They occur because kelp helps to push out mercury or one of the iodine antagonists – bromine, fluorine and chlorine. In our experience, these reactions subside after a while as the body detoxifies if one follows a development program."
I went on a Larry Wilson Nutritional Balancing protocol beginning in April 2018. It started great, but then I crashed and had no idea what really did it.

I was on a lot of kelp. A lottt of it. And I couldn't function, my life sucked.

Currently, I'm improving month by month on a very similar nutritional balancing protocol starting at a sicker state. There is no kelp. I am sufficient in Iodine. We want to heal gracefully man, we don't need to live in hell. If iodine slips on a hair test, I will certainly begin to use some of it. Maybe even try a drop next week. But this week, I'm going without.
 
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mbax44

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Man you guys are your own worst enemies.lm including myself here too. All this overthinking and over analyzing does nothing but add stress. I mean good lord, where does it end? Like ok you take a mineral or vitamin and something happens/positive, negative whatever then you tinker some more (really guessing at what’s going on based on your subjective feeling).. my point is like when does stability ever kick in If every day and hour you’re just making judgements based on the extra 2 mg if b2 or selenium you took 2 hours ago? At some point you gotta go for a protocol and stick with it for awhile , the second guessing little tiny details here and there is ultimately counterproductive.

Over complicating the hell out of something that’s already hard enough , even for experts. There are no solutions, there are no cures. You have to do what’s best for you personally in This arena. There’s nothing wrong with reporting results, but what I see here(and again I’m guilty of it too at times) is well beyond that.
 
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Ingeno

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The Wilking protocol is probably


I went on a Larry Wilson Nutritional Balancing protocol beginning in April 2018. It started great, but then I crashed and had no idea what really did it.

I was on a lot of kelp. A lottt of it. And I couldn't function, my life sucked.

Currently, I'm improving month by month on a very similar nutritional balancing protocol starting at a sicker state. There is no kelp. I am sufficient in Iodine. We want to heal gracefully man, we don't need to live in hell. If iodine slips on a hair test, I will certainly begin to use some of it. Maybe even try a drop next week. But this week, I'm going without.
That is too bad mate, I remember I didn't do great on kelp either back in the day, maybe due to anti-estrogenic effects. WIlson has a lot of wacky shit, but still useful bits of information here and there.
 

bruschi11

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bruschi11

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Man you guys are your own worst enemies.lm including myself here too. All this overthinking and over analyzing does nothing but add stress. I mean good lord, where does it end? Like ok you take a mineral or vitamin and something happens/positive, negative whatever then you tinker some more (really guessing at what’s going on based on your subjective feeling).. my point is like when does stability ever kick in If every day and hour you’re just making judgements based on the extra 2 mg if b2 or selenium you took 2 hours ago? At some point you gotta go for a protocol and stick with it for awhile , the second guessing little tiny details here and there is ultimately counterproductive.

Over complicating the hell out of something that’s already hard enough , even for experts. There are no solutions, there are no cures. You have to do what’s best for you personally in This arena. There’s nothing wrong with reporting results, but what I see here(and again I’m guilty of it too at times) is well beyond that.
Exactly- there are no cures. But I don't think I'm overcomplicating this for myself. I'm trying to make sense of this protocol for myself based on my testing, history, and the biochemistry behind the protocol.

Greg told me to take moly and b2.

There are a lot of other things that make the body function other than moly and b2 and Greg will certainly tell you this. I could take a multivitamin with moly and b2. But I'm already on a balancing protocol that has been improving me for months and is very similar to a multivitamin just spread throughout the day. And currently I see that "wow, I'm reacting to magnesium baths absolutely incredibly."

Then you look at magnesium's affects on that pathway activating B6 from FMN. I mean activating b6 is one of the biggest things for pfs guys- we all got hurt in the Gaba department due to FINs affects on allopreg. Also sulfates importance as Helen lists above and I'm also deficient in sulfur shown on my newest hair test (will upload later today.)

Then you put my history-specifically a recovery a couple years ago that kept me in remission for 8 months. I would've likely kept on going had I not messed with Wilson's stupid protocol followed by Hydrogen Water. (I think if I went ARL back then instead of Wilson, Hydrogen wouldn't have happened and I might be completely healed smh.)

My recovery a couple years ago validates the importance of this biochemical pathway that Greg has taught. I've been in a major paradoxical b12 deficiency during my times of CFS. The paradoxical deficiency was gone when I was healthy. Just using the clues on hand to best of my advantage man.
 
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MCurtone

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So far everything seems okay with the Io/Se/Mo

B2 came in the mail today. Will start taking it tonight or tomorrow. Now the real protocol begins.

All this reading and theory is making my head hurt and confusing the fuck out of me. I'm just going to continue this protocol as I know I am deficient in B2 based on bloods, and B6 and B12 are above range suggesting functional deficiency, which is likely due to low b2.

I will keep you all updated. I need to see if B2 creates a positive cascade for myself:

Take B2 > Correct B6 and B12 functional deficiency > Histamine/allergies to foods normalize > gut motility returns > FMN/FAD/NADPH/Aromatise come back online and I start feeling better.

From there I will move onto terrain modifications.

Borax > Liver flushes > probiotics

Lets see.
 
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mbax44

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I get it. Mag baths most of the time help me too. @Helen is obviously respected by me for starting this forum, however I’d be lying if I said I thought he didn’t contradict himself and also post some very confusing things. Could be his style of writing idk but it isn’t easy to get a grasp on.

And sure, there’s hundreds of protocols. They are similar yet different enough where if you bought into each one(which you could), you’d end up with 100 different supplements or whatever. Electrolytes protocol, this one, mercury site.org or whatever, hair mineral analysis, nitric oxide.,. I mean.. really.

I mean this protocol only been on this forum one month and just here in this thread we have like 5 other protocols posted. It just gets kind of ridiculous.
 

mbax44

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So far everything seems okay with the Io/Se/Mo

B2 came in the mail today. Will start taking it tonight or tomorrow. Now the real protocol begins.

All this reading and theory is making my head hurt and confusing the fuck out of me. I'm just going to continue this protocol as I know I am deficient in B2 based on bloods, and B6 and B12 are above range suggesting functional deficiency, which is likely due to low b2.

I will keep you all updated. I need to see if B2 creates a positive cascade for myself:

Take B2 > Correct B6 and B12 functional deficiency > Histamine/allergies to foods normalize > gut motility returns > FMN/FAD/NADPH/Aromatise come back online and I start feeling better.

From there I will move onto terrain modifications.

Borax > Liver flushes > probiotics

Lets see.
Agreed with the bolded 100 percent.