Interesting protocol for restoring glutathione and functional vitamin B2. ( CFS)

Oct 27, 2017
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The purpose of my post was not to derail the thread (and let's be realistic, there's no way it will derail the thread), it was to call attention to the dangerous and inaccurate statements relating to the "cause of ASD", and the cavalier discussion of taking minerals, which can be very dangerous even in these amounts if you take them without knowing your status, and to point out that being toxic in minerals, whether mercury or any number of nutritional minerals, is probably a very common cause for the people here of FAD being shut off, and that in those common cases, it will not be fixed by taking minerals, it will only be fixed by getting rid of the harmful mineral excesses.
But lots of people here might be chasing a dead end that could harm them by taking minerals, when what they do need is chelation (approached carefully and cautiously, of course- we need to develop a set of guidelines for this in another thread).

Your point is correct, Greg doesnt seems to see heavy metals as main reason for blocking those enzymes, that was my impression of past conv. with him. However there might be a difference b/w
- adults with either heavy metals blocking enzymes,
- adults with nutritional deficiencies not making enzymes function properly and
- kids with loaded from outside heavy metals and as a result having not working enzymes,
not all fall in same category.

Starting separate thread with discussion on the chelation from var aspects will be a good idea, many will benefit from this as well.
 
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Helen

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@Shuddering stay away from this thread, please. I don't need this thread to drawn in your messages.

You dont understand how chelation works. You need to study harder what it is and how it works. You dont even understand what IP6 and ALA is. and how they work.

I have been chelating for 7 years now. 7 years, and you want to chelate stuff out in one day or one week LOL you are insane))


Please post in your thread, and stop polluting this thread with this.


Based on the style of writing in your thread. Estimated time of cure for you=5 years. Do you understand how fucked up you are? or you think this is normal to have such a racing mind? You are majorly fucked.


Look at Bruschi he is getting a little better, it has been years, and he is getting a little bit better with his writtings.

But you SIR, overshadow them all at this time. And this I am going to be cured in a week. with IP6 which just blocks absorption of minerals, or ALA just provides antioxidation and people immediately feel better on ALA, since super oxide levels go down and KREBS cylcle keeps going, as ALA is a cofactor in KREBS cycle,
this is why ALA actually pushes tons of free minerals out of the cell.


Chelation is complex way , and it takes YEARS, and I am doing this way, since i was lead toxic.

I do very low dose chelation to feel good. all the time, and I do hard dose chelation once a year, which totally destroys me.


Since chelation itself destroyes all the transport and glutathione and all other things, and some people never recover from doing NOT proper chelation protocol

since they get brain damage from oxidized minerals. then it takes YEARS upon years to restore meyline sheath.


If you want to start a thread about chelation do it.


Basically, supporting your own detox system, take away symptoms and might take NOT even longer time than outside chelators. to chelate stuff out.

Doing outside chelation, creates distribution and very dangerous if not done properly. ruins metabolism, for many months on. and make you feel like shit. Could be a little faster than supporting your own detox enzymes. may be twice as fast

So these are the choices.
 
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Oct 27, 2017
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Peter, the cataracts may be affecting your vision, but they should not be affecting your logic. Even the child with the highest level of mercury that I have is only 18, which is one tenth of the level seen in the asymptomatic individuals in Japan who were exposed as part of the Minimata catastrophe. Apart from that all but one child has lower levels that the average level of healthy people in Japan. Further the average level of mercury in the ASD is less than one tenth of the levels seen in the average person in Japan, thus the average in ASD is 0.35, one tenth of the average in Japan which is 4 ppm. See [www.bu.edu/sustainability/minamata-...Apl_WmP8RxuqO4BmNQVZdr5_qJGdog_pJe-JfCMalZGk) Time to put the argument to bed. It is totally non-founded or supported by data.

Its good you brought up Peters family case, since it was his kids who got better on Cutlers chelation, but not from a few rounds but number of rounds were in hundreds, some do get start to get better after 50, some after 100+ and this takes 5-6 years. His kids show success from Greg supplements (the oils) after doing the recc B2 work up as well, for a growing kid everything is of importance, esp when you approach things from different angle, chelation of toxicity when you suspect is causing it was proved by provoking dumps and measuring urine, stool for metals, not only hair.


Edit:
In hair before and after 100+ rounds ALA, DMSA in his daughter tests Tin was the only heavy metal out of range, not mercury.
 
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Maxin

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I’m just trying to stick to what Greg would say for this thread.
@Shuddering I don’t vaccinate my son and I know the dangers of heavy metals in relation to vaccines. I’m not disagreeing but let’s try to not debate too much here on chelation. Just trying to get info on here about this protocol and what Greg’s take is on these matters.
 

Enricks

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Genotype-Phenotype Relationships and Endocrine Findings in Prader-Willi Syndrome






Physical and social milestones (as sitting, walking, first words, and reading) are delayed and can be achieved at about double the normal age (18). Most individuals have mild intellectual disability, learning difficulties, and poor academic performance. During early infancy, characteristic behavioral problems are common, such as stubbornness, manipulation, compulsiveness, self-injury, and difficulty with change in routine (5, 19, 20). Another common feature in the syndrome is sleep disruption, related to sleep apnea that impairs the quality and efficiency of sleep, frequently associated with excessive daytime sleepiness, and sedentary behavior with a higher predisposition to obesity (13, 21).
In later childhood, individuals with PWS will reach severe obesity unless food intake is strictly controlled by family and caretakers. The lack of satiety (hypothalamic origin) results in hyperphagia, with obsessive food seeking. In uncontrolled cases, obesity, and its complications are the major causes of morbidity and mortality: respiratory insufficiency, cardiovascular problems, metabolic syndrome, sleep apnea, and type 2 diabetes mellitus (22, 23). Mortality rates range between 1.25 and 3% per year (24, 25). Hyperphagia in PWS is still not fully understood and controlling appetite remains a challenge.
The endocrine system can be the most affected in PWS. Growth hormone (GH) deficiency is present in up to 74% of cases and is associated with short stature, small hands and feet, low motor strength, increased fat mass, and decreased movement and energy expenditure (26, 27). GH replacement therapy has shown positive effects not only on growth and body composition but also on development, behavior, and nocturnal respiratory abnormalities, although a careful respiratory follow up is mandatory during long-term GH administration (2834). Hypogonadism affects both sexes and is manifested as hypogenitalism, incomplete pubertal development and infertility in most individuals (35). Hypogonadism is thought to have a hypothalamic origin, and subsequent insufficient secretion of pituitary gonadotropins and sexual hormones (testosterone or estrogen) (7, 36, 37). Other endocrine abnormalities include hypothyroidism (20–30%), central adrenal insufficiency (about 5%) and type 2 diabetes (up to 25%) due to obesity complications (24, 3841).


PWS is partially caused by overedited 5ht2c receptors. I mean, idk how cfs is like. I don't know if you have motor problems. But all my problems progresses every day. I suspect that's a heavy metal issue. I don't see any reason why would Fluoxetine trigger something like this.
 
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bruschi11

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Is this protocol also useful for post ssri syndrome? I didn't use fin.
This is a cfs based protocol. Fin, ssri have induced cfs in many of us. It seems like you certainly fit this profile based on your issues. Fixing cfs can lead to fixing the pharma damage.
 
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Enricks

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This is a cfs based protocol. Fin, ssri have induced cfs in many of us. It seems like you certainly fit this profile based on your issues. Fixing cfs can lead to fixing the pharma damage.
May i ask a thing about cfs? I heard that cfs patients have muscle pains or somewhat like that. I don't have any chronic pain. My problem is just like neurodegeneration and metabolic syndrome combined with bowel reactivity issues on top of them. Could we say that I have CFS? Also my problems progresses, is it common in cfs?
 

bruschi11

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May i ask a thing about cfs? I heard that cfs patients have muscle pains or somewhat like that. I don't have any chronic pain. My problem is just like neurodegeneration and metabolic syndrome combined with bowel reactivity issues on top of them. Could we say that I have CFS? Also my problems progresses, is it common in cfs?
Yes. Cfs is a broad term. The outcome, whichever is going on in the body, leads to neurological issues. You certainly fit this criteria with neurodegeneration, metabolic syndrome. Same stuff I’ve experienced.
 
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mbax44

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Shuddering actually is saying that taking the iodine rda etc and even less in most cases is a problem with the minerals in this protocol . Just ponder that for a moment. He even made the disingenuous comparison of this with the iodine loading protocol where people are taking like 50 mg(we are taking mcg in this protocol). I can’t bother replying to every part of his 20 paragraph post, but just pointing out that in order to even make this comparison you probably have an agenda you’re trying to push. And one other thing, I don’t think anyone here is dogmatic about the b2/b12 protocol, simply experimenting(which is the purpose of this board, to try and get well).

@Shuddering like I said, if you have such a hardon for chelation /cutler /mercury/aluminum/heavy metal poisoning, create a thread and experiment. And you say your not trying to derail-but you are-with every 40 paragraph post.
 
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bruschi11

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Shuddering actually is saying that taking the iodine rda etc and even less in most cases is a problem with the minerals in this protocol . Just ponder that for a moment. He even made the disingenuous comparison of this with the iodine loading protocol where people are taking like 50 mg(we are taking mcg in this protocol). I can’t bother replying to every part of his 20 paragraph post, but just pointing out that in order to even make this comparison you probably have an agenda you’re trying to push. And one other thing, I don’t think anyone here is dogmatic about the b2/b12 protocol, simply experimenting(which is the purpose of this board, to try and get well).

@Shuddering like I said, if you have such a hardon for chelation /cutler /mercury/aluminum/heavy metal poisoning, create a thread and experiment. And you say your not trying to derail-but you are-with every 40 paragraph post.
He’s 23 and dealing with a severe racing mind. Lol I’m 31 and have dealt with a lot of it in the past. Makes u go crazy. @Helen set the record straight. I doubt he’ll be back in this thread.
 

bruschi11

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Per @Helen

“To activate b6, you need FNM in one enzyme and magnesium in another. Not FAD.”

So this makes clear sense why I backtracked this past week.

Remember, FNM converts to FAD via the co-factor molybdenum which I essentially overdosed on lol.

By ODing on moly. I converted way too much FNM to FAD. Without FNM, I now have deemed B6 inactive.
B6 inactivity = gaba not working= fast oxidation, weak cortisol.

Backing off moly, continuing with b2/ nutrition, and magnesium baths yesterday have brought me back close to baseline. Activating b6 has been gigantic for me and by converting all that FNM to FAD, I annihilated that.

This is all making soooooo much sense to me and providing so much clarity.

You need to stay sufficient in both FNM and FAD. While building up on b2 seems to be the end goal here. I agree that we probably shouldn’t need the b12 oils. Maybe one day if the body handles it well to re-build brain in b12 like Greg says.
 
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Enricks

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@bruschi11 Molybdenum supplement isn't being sold here. Is it an essential part of this protocol? Should I try supplementing b2 daily? Magnesium, b2, and selenium. Should it be sufficient or do I need iodine ? I eat lots of iodized salt.
 

Ingeno

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@bruschi11 Molybdenum supplement isn't being sold here. Is it an essential part of this protocol? Should I try supplementing b2 daily? Magnesium, b2, and selenium. Should it be sufficient or do I need iodine ? I eat lots of iodized salt.
Just eat lentils, loads of molybdenum in it.
 

bruschi11

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@bruschi11 Molybdenum supplement isn't being sold here. Is it an essential part of this protocol? Should I try supplementing b2 daily? Magnesium, b2, and selenium. Should it be sufficient or do I need iodine ? I eat lots of iodized salt.
https://www.amazon.com/Genestra-Brands-Supports-Function-Oxidative/dp/B019LWQYKW

This is the mineral supplement that is recommended by the researcher and @mbax44 is improving on.

Maybe run that and feed b2. I don't know. I do not know the exact information for this. You may want to send an email to the Greg. He may be willing to help you. Do you have a hair test?
 

bruschi11

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This is a Greg quote that's given me a decent understanding of this pathway- specifically how iodine, selenium, and molybdenum impact this cascade. There is a photo of this on the facebook group. I believe it was taken from his website.

Role of the Thyroid in FAD Synthesis

Synthesis of Flavin Mononucleotide (FMN) from riboflavin requires the addition of phosphate from ATP, via riboflavin kinase, with the input of triiodothryonine (T3) and thyroxine (T4). Both T3 and T4 are produced in the thyroid following stimulation by thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH). The subsequent synthesis of FAD from FMN also involves contribution of thyroxine in the presence of FAD plus AMP. Deficiency in thyroxine, due to hypothyroidism can result in reduced levels of FAD in the body. Similarly dietary deficiency in either iodine (required for synthesis of T4), selenium (required for the conversion of T4 to T3), molybdenum (for the conversion of FMN to FAD) and/or riboflavin can result in reduced FAD, subsequently resulting in vitamin b12 deficiency.
 
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mbax44

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This is a Greg quote that's given me a decent understanding of this pathway- specifically how iodine, selenium, and molybdenum impact this cascade. There is a photo of this on the facebook group. I believe it was taken from his website.

Role of the Thyroid in FAD Synthesis

Synthesis of Flavin Mononucleotide (FMN) from riboflavin requires the addition of phosphate from ATP, via riboflavin kinase, with the input of triiodothryonine (T3) and thyroxine (T4). Both T3 and T4 are produced in the thyroid following stimulation by thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH). The subsequent synthesis of FAD from FMN also involves contribution of thyroxine in the presence of FAD plus AMP. Deficiency in thyroxine, due to hypothyroidism can result in reduced levels of FAD in the body. Similarly dietary deficiency in either iodine (required for synthesis of T4), selenium (required for the conversion of T4 to T3), molybdenum (for the conversion of FMN to FAD) and/or riboflavin can result in reduced FAD, subsequently resulting in vitamin b12 deficiency.
Wonder if this is the reason I always feel better on thyroid meds. Hard to stabilize and find a working long term dose, but it always works when I’m really feeling awful.
 

Shuddering

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I will respect people's wishes and stay out of this thread from here. I will just make this one last post to clear up continuing misreadings of my posts here:

there might be a difference b/w [groups]
Starting separate thread with discussion on the chelation from var aspects will be a good idea
Yes, there are many such different categories. I was not at all attempting to lump everyone together. I distinguished btwn kids and young adults with ASD, adults with CFS caused by Hg, adults with CFS not caused by Hg, adults with CFS or PFS or other terrible health syndromes that are poisoned with nutritional minerals or who are in danger of it especially if they supplement with them, even the RDA.

Yeah, if someone started a separate thread for this (or two- poisoning by mercury, and poisoning with nutritional metals) I think that would be great.

I’m just trying to stick to what Greg would say for this thread.
@Shuddering I don’t vaccinate my son and I know the dangers of heavy metals in relation to vaccines. I’m not disagreeing but let’s try to not debate too much here on chelation. Just trying to get info on here about this protocol and what Greg’s take is on these matters.
It was not my intention to derail the thread, and in fact I hoped my comments about mercury and autism would not become the subject of many posts here like they have become. Those were meant more as a side note just to point out that his comments about "the cause of ASD" were dangerous and false. I made my posts here merely to provide a warning for people that this protocol, while great for some, could be very dangerous for others. I am glad Greg shared his knowledge publicly, it could be of great benefit for many, and I thank him for that. But he goes too far in some of his claims, and since these can actually (though it might not look like it from the outside) have life-threatening consequences, I am obligated to criticize him for that and leave at least one mention of these criticisms here so that people are not fooled and don't endanger themselves, whether it is for ASD or CFS or any other condition where b2 and b12 are functionally deficient.

I actually did hope my post would spawn some discussion of chelation, but not primarily for mercury. I meant in the context of fixing nutritional mineral toxicities (which can be Se or Mo, or any other mineral), which I think tons of people here secretly have, because this is what can happen when the body is broken like in PFS and CFS. Obviously just jumping into chelation to fix things like this (though it has worked for me, and very quickly, multiple times before) withotu knowing your imbalance is extremely dangerous and should not be done, which is why I thought soem discussion of it would be of value. And if a small back and forth on this thread grew out of this, then we could make another thread for that purpose, and have those posts here just serve as a notification for people considering this protocol that they should be aware of this stuff and these risks with taking even the RDA of minerals if you are sick.

Thank you, also, for the respectful tone of your posts. I really do appreciate it.

Shuddering actually is saying that taking the iodine rda etc and even less in most cases is a problem with the minerals in this protocol . Just ponder that for a moment. He even made the disingenuous comparison of this with the iodine loading protocol where people are taking like 50 mg(we are taking mcg in this protocol). I can’t bother replying to every part of his 20 paragraph post, but just pointing out that in order to even make this comparison you probably have an agenda you’re trying to push. And one other thing, I don’t think anyone here is dogmatic about the b2/b12 protocol, simply experimenting(which is the purpose of this board, to try and get well).

@Shuddering like I said, if you have such a hardon for chelation /cutler /mercury/aluminum/heavy metal poisoning, create a thread and experiment. And you say your not trying to derail-but you are-with every 40 paragraph post.
Dude, read what I said. That is not what I said- stop misquoting me. I specifically said in my last post that I was mistaken about Iodine here since it is just in the microgram range, and that with the amounts of selenium he recs that actually could be too little for some people (taking too much Selenium relative to Iodine can cause thyroid damage). But my warnings about this amount of Selenium and Molybdenum for SOME PEOPLE remain valid. Not all people- many will improve greatly from this. These amounts of selenium he recommends actually are in the normal range of what the Iodine protocol has people supplement, and even these (Even if they are within the RDA) can be dangerous for some people. Same with molybdenum, especially since these are on top (if I understood his protocol correctly) of what you are already getting from food. He also recommends selenate/selenite, which are inherently toxic for some people.

The relevant excerpt from my last post in question:
I did not see that the iodine he recommended was in the microgram range, yes that's safe for far more people, and with these amounts of selenium he recommends that actually might be too little. I only saw larger amounts for some people in this thread. But supplementing with the amounts of Se and Mo recommended, though they will help lots of people as they did for me, will also harm a number of people. Recommending the same amounts for everyone at random is not safe, especially when because of hidden toxicities in nutritional or toxic minerals (ie-people with bad chronic health issues) they might be unable to use and excrete these minerals so they will just accumulate them and risk getting poisoned with them.
My point is that normal people are probably safe to take these amounts since if they do get too much their body can excrete it. For people with things like CFS or post drug syndromes, things are often different, since these mechanisms in their body are shut down, so they are vulnerable to overaccumulating minerals, which creates further toxicities. So supplementing minerals, even the RDA for them, can be very dangerous for these people. Especially for Selenium if you live in the US, etc. What if it turns out you do have high levels of Se or Mo already, despite them being low on your hair test, and then you do this protocol for a while? You make yourself toxic in a new mineral, and now you are much more sick, and your body can't fix that by itself.

My mention of mercury and ASD was mostly a separate issue, responding to Greg's false claims about the cause of ASD and using his protocol for it (when mercury is the real cause and giving minerals can actually make it worse), and also referring to cases of CFS that are caused by mercury, which probably applies to some people here (not all, not most, just some- if you are reacting to the Selenium or iodine it will sometimes, but not always, indicate you have mercury). This is not the same as my mention of nutritional mineral toxicities, which actually do affect the body in a similar way to toxic metals, but are MUCH more common among people here, because when you crash and your body stops working (ie - the people this forum is for) you are now unable to stop minerals from accumulating, and taking minerals (even the RDA) can make this much worse.

My posts are so long because I care about the truth, and putting out all relevant information without ambiguity, which is hard to do in a short post.

Its good you brought up Peters family case, since it was his kids who got better on Cutlers chelation, but not from a few rounds but number of rounds were in hundreds, some do get start to get better after 50, some after 100+ and this takes 5-6 years. His kids show success from Greg supplements (the oils) after doing the recc B2 work up as well, for a growing kid everything is of importance, esp when you approach things from different angle, chelation of toxicity when you suspect is causing it was proved by provoking dumps and measuring urine, stool for metals, not only hair.

Edit:
In hair before and after 100+ rounds ALA, DMSA in his daughter tests Tin was the only heavy metal out of range, not mercury.
Yes! Mercury and other metal toxcities frequently do not show up in the hair, because if they did, it would mean your body would be fixing the toxicity on tis own (at least much of it). And yes, as someone personally familiar and experienced with mercury chelation, I know well that it usually does take a long time, though I finished it quicker than most. When I refer to chelation healing people very quickly, it is not in reference to inherently toxic metals like Hg Pb etc, because those damage the body too much on the way out to get rid of them all at once, but in reference to fixing toxicities of nutritional minerals, which normally are safe but become harmful above a certain amount, but are nto inherently toxic and so will nto damage the body on the way out- this is why these can be fixed quickly in some cases with chelation. The real dager with chelation in these cases then becomes not imbalancing yourself of other minerals if the excess of the nturitonal mineral is too big for just a small dose. This is why these must be approached with extreme caution as well.


He’s 23 and dealing with a severe racing mind. Lol I’m 31 and have dealt with a lot of it in the past. Makes u go crazy. @Helen set the record straight. I doubt he’ll be back in this thread.
I do not have a severely racing mind. I did for years but then last year I improved my androgens with diet, Zinc, Iodine, Selenium and it was greatly reduced, and then I cured myself of mercury and it went away fully, even though I'm still sick.

But last year in fact I did get too much zinc in my diet at one point and got poisoned with it (symptoms extremely similar to PFS, for 2 awful months straight, even though I restricted zinc from my diet that whole time), and the only thing that fixed it was low dose ALA chelation. And a few days later I was cured of that problem. @Helen seems to be claiming things like that cannot happen, but they have happened multiple times for me. That is why I think I can be cured soon, if I do it right.

If my posts in my own thread seem "crazy" it is usually because when writing them I have been dealing with a lot of pain from my infections, which does stress me out a lot in the moment, or because I make such long and detailed posts, which I do because I hoped people would read them and answer my questions, and that making them so detailed would ensure I didn't leave out the relevant information. If my posts in this thread seem "crazy," it is because of anger- anger at people making bs claims about ASD CFS and mercury, which I had hoped would just remain a side note in my original post, and anger at people making those side comments the subject of this thread when the main purpose of my posts here was to warn people about the dangers of taking even the RDA of minerals when you have a chronic health condition, and at the false assumption that if your HTMA values of these minerals are low it is always safe to take them.

@Shuddering stay away from this thread, please. I don't need this thread to drawn in your messages.

You dont understand how chelation works. You need to study harder what it is and how it works. You dont even understand what IP6 and ALA is. and how they work.

I have been chelating for 7 years now. 7 years, and you want to chelate stuff out in one day or one week LOL you are insane))

Please post in your thread, and stop polluting this thread with this.
I did not say that every case (or nearly every case) that could be fixed by chelation would be fixed quickly with it. I am well aware that when you are poisoned with inherently toxic metals like Pb or Hg, you can chelate them quickly. It usually takes a long time. You have been chelating so long because you have a major lead poisoning problem. Obviously if you chelated a bunch at once you'd die. That's why I warned people against taking even small doses of ALA or other chelators if they don't know they aren't toxic in something like lead or mercury or arsenic, and to not just try something like that even if they know they are free of toxic metals, because you can imbalance the body.


Based on the style of writing in your thread. Estimated time of cure for you=5 years. Do you understand how fucked up you are? or you think this is normal to have such a racing mind? You are majorly fucked.

Look at Bruschi he is getting a little better, it has been years, and he is getting a little bit better with his writtings.

But you SIR, overshadow them all at this time. And this I am going to be cured in a week. with IP6 which just blocks absorption of minerals, or ALA just provides antioxidation and people immediately feel better on ALA, since super oxide levels go down and KREBS cylcle keeps going, as ALA is a cofactor in KREBS cycle,
this is why ALA actually pushes tons of free minerals out of the cell.
LOL. I can't be compared to Bruschi and others, because they have had their problems for years. I was unwell for years with my old problems, but briefly I was completely cured after I lowered my mercury enough. I was completely healthy. Now I no longer have my old problems, new ones- just 3.5 months old. My remaining problems were only created in just 3.5 months, so why would it take 5 years for me to cure myself of them, especially if they are probably very simple in origin?

I have cured myself in just a day before of similar problems by using chelation, so why wouldn't I be able to cure myself now in a week if I am right about the problem being the same?

If IP-6 just blocks absorption of minerals rather than chelates them, why do many people anecdotally seem to get chelation action from it? Read amazon reviews for it- you see people take a lot for one week, and then they note major improvements almost immediately that they attribute to probably being from chelating iron. If it just blocked intake of iron, it could not lead to those improvements in so short a time. I have seen anecdotes on forums of it acting as a chelator eg curing Cadmium toxicity over time. When I personally took in some more mercury again last month from fish (I could feel it, I know what mercury feels like) and then took IP-6 I could feel the mercury redistributing. The exact same feeling. Just 20 minutes after taking it. And now I don't feel it anymore when I take chelators, cause I chelated this new mercury out (it wasn''t a ton, so was quick to remove). How is IP-6 not a chelator given all of these cases? Where are you getting this from that it only blocks absorption?

As for ALA, so what if that's how it works. It still pushes minerals out of the cell, and much of these from the body, if it could be used in moderate doses to quickly push enough of the minerals someone is toxic in from the body, then it could in SOME situations be used to rapidly cure someone from a NUTRITIONAL (not toxic, like Hg or Pb, ik these take much longer) mineral toxicity. And in fact, that has happened to me now, multiple times in the last year, including once again this week.

Chelation is complex way , and it takes YEARS, and I am doing this way, since i was lead toxic.

I do very low dose chelation to feel good. all the time, and I do hard dose chelation once a year, which totally destroys me.

Since chelation itself destroyes all the transport and glutathione and all other things, and some people never recover from doing NOT proper chelation protocol

since they get brain damage from oxidized minerals. then it takes YEARS upon years to restore meyline sheath.
Chelation takes years if you are very toxic in a toxic mineral. I know that. I wasn't referring to cases like yours when I talked about chelation curing people rapidly- those are only when they are toxic in a nutritional mineral, which does not do much damage on its way out, and when the excess amount you have is not very high, so you don't have to take hug doses of chelators to get rid of it cause that would imbalance the body. They are different things entirely, I was not conflating them. Read my posts here more closely, you will see I make this distinction.

Chelation destroys transport proteins and glutathione etc - Ik it does in many cases- but how much of that is due to redistributed lead causing damage? If your problem isn't lead or mercury, and you only want to remove non-oxidized nutritional minerals you just have too much of, that doesn't cause that damage, does it? I know it can temporarily inhibit mineral transport of some types for a few days, but sometimes on top of that it actually reopens shut down mineral transport enzymes immediately. It is this sort of thing I wanted to talk about on my own thread, I would love if you would respond to it and engage with my questions. I'd be overjoyed to have this type of discussion there.


If you want to start a thread about chelation do it.
I think that's a good idea. I may do that.

Basically, supporting your own detox system, take away symptoms and might take NOT even longer time than outside chelators. to chelate stuff out.

Doing outside chelation, creates distribution and very dangerous if not done properly. ruins metabolism, for many months on. and make you feel like shit. Could be a little faster than supporting your own detox enzymes. may be twice as fast

So these are the choices.
In my experience with toxicities of nutritional minerals that has not been the case. I have been able multiple times to suddenly open up hundreds or thousands of inhibited enzymes. Whereas for when I chelated mercury ofc that was true, that's why I couldn't do it all at once, like everybody else with the same problem.
Please respond to my thread so we can discuss this. We have apparently different claims that seem to contradict each other, so let's have a discussion there to figure it out, and to see if we are actually not in conflict but just misunderstanding each other. What I'm describing I think is a very real thing and has the potential if we spent more time on it to understand it and make it safe to create or improve protocols that could help or cure many (but not all), people.


Ok, this is my last post on this thread. I think I've accomplished my purpose despite the distractions, which was just to warn people about casually taking minerals, even in "low" amounts, when they have health conditions, and to look at being toxic in minerals, including in nutritional minerals, as the real cause of inhbiited FAD in many cases, which when that is the problem will not be fixed by taking Mo/Se/I, but ONLY by removing the mineral toxicity (and in thsoe cases, SOMETIMES chelation can fix you very quickly, and the body won't fix itself on its own, but this is something you don't just jump into as I warned because chelation can be very dangerous).

Edit:
You really think these are from blocking absorption? :
Help With IP6 Iron Chelation Safety - Supplements - LONGECITY
Iron Chelator IP6 - Rice Bran Extract (IP6)
 
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mbax44

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2018
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florida
Jesus tapdancing Christ. Love coming in and having to scroll past a fucking John Grisham novel to get to the bottom of the page.

It’s like nietzsche said- most books that contain truth really should only be a few pages long. They’re not because you can’t sell that and you need to manipulate.. with a lot of words. Dude. Start your own thread. Please.