Interesting protocol for restoring glutathione and functional vitamin B2. ( CFS)

Kjbigman

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#41
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Oct 27, 2017
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#43
It seems the oils to have its desired effect all the preceding nutrients with its cofactors mentioned or not in the protocol should be covered. It make sense since if everything metabolism needs is supplied, the body have no choice but respond accordingly.
 
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bruschi11

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#44
It seems the oils to have its desired effect all the preceding nutrients with its cofactors mentioned or not in the protocol should be covered. It make sense since if everything metabolism needs is supplied, the body have no choice but respond accordingly.
Exactly.

And this is the protocol... https://b12oils.com/rnb.htm

I have NOT been taking the correct forms of molybdenum and selenium that his protocol calls for. I also have not been taking iodine, but luckily realized I have the iodine his protocol calls for on hand.

I will have more. He evaluated those 3 pfs cases you directed me to yesterday @Helen .
 
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Boris

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#45
Does it need to be both of these minerals in there specific form or it won't work?

Selenium (sodium selenate), Molybdenum (sodium molybdate)
 
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Helen

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#46
Does it need to be both of these minerals in there specific form or it won't work?

Selenium (sodium selenate), Molybdenum (sodium molybdate)

iodide also has to be in specific form, not in iodine form. since that is after FAD product.
 
Oct 27, 2017
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#47
Exactly.

And this is the protocol... https://b12oils.com/rnb.htm

I have NOT been taking the correct forms of molybdenum and selenium that his protocol calls for. I also have not been taking iodine, but luckily realized I have the iodine his protocol calls for on hand.

I will have more. He evaluated those 3 pfs cases you directed me to yesterday @Helen .

Yes, I know what Mr. Jones recommends in terms of nutrients. Ive had a conversation with him in '16 and '17 after my OAT was done. He was that kind to look up the results and give his comments and recommendations based on the values. His main focus of work at the time was Autism (ASD) kids and probably still is, as they are way more urgent to taken care of since can not develop properly. Even back then there was separate section from his work regarding CFS as all this with ASD is about proper metabolism in general. Ive spoken with people who have shared their kids feel way better in terms of developing after been on his recommendations, which isnt only b12 from his products, but the whole other nutrients metabolism requires to work.
 

Boris

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#48
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bruschi11

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#49
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bruschi11

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#52
Ok so let's make a list. Let us know if these look okay so if someone tries it out they can.

Iodide
Source Naturals Potassium Iodide 32.5 mg - 60 Tablets

Selenium
Selenium (Sodium Selenite), 200 mcg 50 capsules

Molybdenum
Sodium Molybdate (Pot Of 90 Capsules)
Here is a good molybdenum product w/ sodium molybdate.

Robot Check

Funny thing here is I bought this for approx $14.00 on amazon last night. It just jumped over $20.00 . Hahaha they knew we were coming smh! Well I beat you all by 6 bucks!
 
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HerrFisch

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#53
Here is a good molybdenum product w/ sodium molybdate.
Pretty expensive just because it’s some liquid.
I would rather go for some pure sodium molybate. Seems like there is more in it for which you pay extra。
75mcg is not that much. So you probably take 3-6x. Unless you believe that uptake from this special product is better.
 

bruschi11

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#54
Pretty expensive just because it’s some liquid.
I would rather go for some pure sodium molybate. Seems like there is more in it for which you pay extra。
75mcg is not that much. Unless you believe that uptake from this special product is better.
Ya probably most affordable to capsule yourself with pure form as you say. But this at least saves the time of measuring, capsuling.
 

bruschi11

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#56
Greg's thoughts on one of the PFS cases that @Helen told me to have him look into.....

" Normally I just collect the data and then group it and look for trends, then work out the biochemistry.

If the data is representative, it is very explicable and would fit with functional B2 deficiency and paradoxical B12 deficiency.




Person 1.

AminoAcids in Plasma
Glutathione (oxidised) 0.57 µmol/L Range (0.16 - 0.50)
Glutathione (reduced) 3.4 µmol/L (3.8 - 5.50)

This is typical of CFS and ASD, which are both well documented, but in my hands both have functional B2 deficiency. In the common data the ratio of GSH:GSSG drops as in B2 deficiency you cannot reduce GSSG back to GSH, so GSSG builds up.




Derivates
S-Adenosylmethionine (RBC) 219 µmol/dl (221 - 256)
S-Adenosylhomocysteine (RBC) 56.6 µmol/dl (38.0 - 48.0)

This would also be typical of absolute B12 deficiency, or paradoxical B12 deficiency. Thus, the cell gets stuck at SAH, which will go onto make homocysteine. The lack of cycling of Hcy, means that intracellular methionine drops and so you don't make enough SAM, you will see this later when Adenosine is higher.

FOLIC ACID DERIVATES
5-CH3-THF 9.0 nmol/l (8.4 - 72.6)
10-Formyl-THF 5.4 nmol/l (1.5 -8.2)
5-Formyl-THF 4.9 nmol/l (1.20 - 11.70)
THF 0.60 nmol/l (0.6 - 6.80)
Folic Acid 10.7 nmol/l (8.9 - 24.6)

Folinic Acid (WB) 8.2 nmol/l (9.0 - 35.5)
Active Folate (RBC) 356 nmol/l (400 - 1500)

Intracellular folate requires movement through to the folate cycle and then polyglutamination, or the folate is lost from the cell. Generally serum folate will be high, serum B12 will be high, but intracellular folate(s) will be low. Low 5MTHF also occurs with lack of activity of MTHFR due to B2 deficiency.

NUCLEOSIDE
Adenosine 25.5 10^-8 M (16.8 - 21.4 )

See it is high. Thus adenosine + Methionine => SAM, but when methionine is low, because it doesn't cycle due to B12 deficiency, then SAH will be high. SAH => Hcy + Adenosine.



If most of the people have similar ratios then I would suspect the same cause, ie lack of functional B2, which may come from trying to deal with the drug, or due purely to low Iodine, Selenium and/or Molybdenum, in which case it may have caused the condition that you were trying to treat with the drug.



Lots of conditions out there that are similar, ie low functional B2 can cause obesity, and diabetes, and paradoxical B12 deficiency, which you cannot fix until you fix the B2 deficiency. Classic would be some of the discussions on use of SSRIs and those with ADD."
 

bruschi11

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#57

Kjbigman

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#60
Greg's thoughts on one of the PFS cases that @Helen told me to have him look into.....

" Normally I just collect the data and then group it and look for trends, then work out the biochemistry.

If the data is representative, it is very explicable and would fit with functional B2 deficiency and paradoxical B12 deficiency.



Person 1.

AminoAcids in Plasma
Glutathione (oxidised) 0.57 µmol/L Range (0.16 - 0.50)
Glutathione (reduced) 3.4 µmol/L (3.8 - 5.50)

This is typical of CFS and ASD, which are both well documented, but in my hands both have functional B2 deficiency. In the common data the ratio of GSH:GSSG drops as in B2 deficiency you cannot reduce GSSG back to GSH, so GSSG builds up.




Derivates
S-Adenosylmethionine (RBC) 219 µmol/dl (221 - 256)
S-Adenosylhomocysteine (RBC) 56.6 µmol/dl (38.0 - 48.0)

This would also be typical of absolute B12 deficiency, or paradoxical B12 deficiency. Thus, the cell gets stuck at SAH, which will go onto make homocysteine. The lack of cycling of Hcy, means that intracellular methionine drops and so you don't make enough SAM, you will see this later when Adenosine is higher.

FOLIC ACID DERIVATES
5-CH3-THF 9.0 nmol/l (8.4 - 72.6)
10-Formyl-THF 5.4 nmol/l (1.5 -8.2)
5-Formyl-THF 4.9 nmol/l (1.20 - 11.70)
THF 0.60 nmol/l (0.6 - 6.80)
Folic Acid 10.7 nmol/l (8.9 - 24.6)

Folinic Acid (WB) 8.2 nmol/l (9.0 - 35.5)
Active Folate (RBC) 356 nmol/l (400 - 1500)

Intracellular folate requires movement through to the folate cycle and then polyglutamination, or the folate is lost from the cell. Generally serum folate will be high, serum B12 will be high, but intracellular folate(s) will be low. Low 5MTHF also occurs with lack of activity of MTHFR due to B2 deficiency.

NUCLEOSIDE
Adenosine 25.5 10^-8 M (16.8 - 21.4 )

See it is high. Thus adenosine + Methionine => SAM, but when methionine is low, because it doesn't cycle due to B12 deficiency, then SAH will be high. SAH => Hcy + Adenosine.



If most of the people have similar ratios then I would suspect the same cause, ie lack of functional B2, which may come from trying to deal with the drug, or due purely to low Iodine, Selenium and/or Molybdenum, in which case it may have caused the condition that you were trying to treat with the drug.



Lots of conditions out there that are similar, ie low functional B2 can cause obesity, and diabetes, and paradoxical B12 deficiency, which you cannot fix until you fix the B2 deficiency. Classic would be some of the discussions on use of SSRIs and those with ADD."
Amazing. Guys, what about the Thorne elite supplement? It has literally everything in the same (max) doses prescribed in the protocol. The iodide is in the proper form. It is tough to buy up all these supplements separately so I was thinking of just using this because it is a convenient multivitamin. The only problem is you can't ratchet up the dose so you have to take them all at once at the highest dose. So you might deal with some side-effects at first.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/slredirec...5401145&id=8788422790830936&widgetName=sp_atf

ALSO. Just a side-note but it turns out that I have Gilbert's syndrome as well as a MTHR variant which reduces methylfolate. So it could be we all have these variants which is why fin kills us.