Interesting protocol for restoring glutathione and functional vitamin B2. ( CFS)

[Helen]

@bruschi11 https://b12oils.com/rnb.htm

the guys name is Greg. He is a biochemist with 40 year experience.


Here are some of his quotes:

Fix FAD before being able to fix NADPH.. and molybdenum, selenium and iodine have to be those types to build the pathway

5-AR enzymes require NADPH. NADPH needs B1 enzyme to work.

In chronic B2 deficiency you have problems as 3 of the 4 enzymes that use TPP (from thiamine) also require B2 and so in B2 deficiency B1 is lost.

One of the early enzymes in Estrogen synthesis is aromatase., Which is a B2 dependent enzyme

Aromatase requires FAD. For FAD to work it needs B2 and for B2 to work it requires co-factors Iodine, Selenium (sodium selenate), Molybdenum (sodium molybdate)

FAD pathway takes 1-3 months to start working again.

B12 needs B2 to work.

Glutathione needs b2 to work

Ceruloplasmin should work after building FAD pathway

Low cortisol should normalise after fixing fad and b12

Sibo should get better

Etc etc

SIBO:
""As far as gut motility goes, this is basically controlled by 3 things that are vitamin dependent. Histamine, serotonin and Nitric oxide. Histamine production indirectly depends upon B2 levels (and also B6), whilst serotonin depends upon TPH2 status, as well as iron/B2/folate/B12, whilst NO depends upon NOS, which depends upon iron/ B2/folate/B12/B3. If you muck with these then you don't get proper gut motility and this then causes conditions such as IBS and bacterial over-growth.”--©️GRJ

B6 function is dependent on B2, according to GRJ.

"Once you get B12 fixed it should deal with histamine issues, plus it will help mature the gut and it induces a whole bunch of intestinal enzymes that are protective. You can get all sorts of bugs growing when your metabolismis out of whack as you are excreting large amounts of carbon sources and small sugars, which they love to grow on."--GRJ

 

[bruschi11]

@bruschi11 https://b12oils.com/rnb.htm

the guys name is Greg. He is a biochemist with 40 year experience.


Here are some of his quotes:

Fix FAD before being able to fix NADPH.. and molybdenum, selenium and iodine have to be those types to build the pathway

5-AR enzymes require NADPH. NADPH needs B1 enzyme to work.

In chronic B2 deficiency you have problems as 3 of the 4 enzymes that use TPP (from thiamine) also require B2 and so in B2 deficiency B1 is lost.

One of the early enzymes in Estrogen synthesis is aromatase., Which is a B2 dependent enzyme

Aromatase requires FAD. For FAD to work it needs B2 and for B2 to work it requires co-factors Iodine, Selenium (sodium selenate), Molybdenum (sodium molybdate)

FAD pathway takes 1-3 months to start working again.

B12 needs B2 to work.

Glutathione needs b2 to work

Ceruloplasmin should work after building FAD pathway

Low cortisol should normalise after fixing fad and b12

Sibo should get better

Etc etc

SIBO:
""As far as gut motility goes, this is basically controlled by 3 things that are vitamin dependent. Histamine, serotonin and Nitric oxide. Histamine production indirectly depends upon B2 levels (and also B6), whilst serotonin depends upon TPH2 status, as well as iron/B2/folate/B12, whilst NO depends upon NOS, which depends upon iron/ B2/folate/B12/B3. If you muck with these then you don't get proper gut motility and this then causes conditions such as IBS and bacterial over-growth.”--©️GRJ

B6 function is dependent on B2, according to GRJ.

"Once you get B12 fixed it should deal with histamine issues, plus it will help mature the gut and it induces a whole bunch of intestinal enzymes that are protective. You can get all sorts of bugs growing when your metabolismis out of whack as you are excreting large amounts of carbon sources and small sugars, which they love to grow on."--GRJ

Good stuff!!!! I was referred to him last week from someone here. I will be contacting Greg via email tomorrow!

Edit: I just emailed him )))))

 

[Ingeno]

Interesting read, could this benefit PFS as well? It seems that this protocol gives benefits faster, temped to try it out instead of TEI. Maybe this or ARL.

 

[bruschi11]

Right off the bat- here we go with some vital info regarding my case.

When mentioning the fact that I have elevated b12 in all of my bloodwork dating back to 2013 (besides my brief 8 month CFS recovery in late 17, early 18 as b12 was normal)- Greg directed me towards this link. https://b12oils.com/paradoxical.htm

Simply speaking- the link explains that the elevated b12 actually indicates a b12 deficiency due to a functional b2 deficiency due to lack of molybdenum, iodine, or selenium.

Looking at my last HTMA- molybdenum is low. I will be increasing this.

I have not mega dosed b2 in two weeks or so. I just did earlier today and my brain just feels so much more balanced. I have also ordered the Adenosyl/Methyl B12 oil.

 

[Continuous Heal]

I am definitely having histamine issues, as well as significant digestive issues, though I struggle with how to figure out if this applies to me and how I should deal with it.

 

[MCurtone]

This is super interesting because I too seem to have histamine issues. My gut is fucked, my B12 levels are elevated and my molybdenum levels were also low on HTMA

 

[Helen]

Right off the bat- here we go with some vital info regarding my case.

When mentioning the fact that I have elevated b12 in all of my bloodwork dating back to 2013 (besides my brief 8 month CFS recovery in late 17, early 18 as b12 was normal)- Greg directed me towards this link. https://b12oils.com/paradoxical.htm

Simply speaking- the link explains that the elevated b12 actually indicates a b12 deficiency due to a functional b2 deficiency due to lack of molybdenum, iodine, or selenium.

Looking at my last HTMA- molybdenum is low. I will be increasing this.

I have not mega dosed b2 in two weeks or so. I just did earlier today and my brain just feels so much more balanced. I have also ordered the Adenosyl/Methyl B12 oil.

b12 is recylced by glutathione reductase, which is FAD enzyme.

Without recycled b12 you dont have folate cycle.

and this causes low adrenaline.

this is electrolytes protocol, I am happy someone is in agreement with me.

Will be interesting to see if the order or replenishement of the minerals will be important.


all PFS people had zero folates and zero glutathione , identical tests. All 10 tests that I saw had exactly the same parameters. I posted 3 of them.


glutathione deficiency will cause NDMA receptor to shut down.

also there will be no carnitine, and thus androgens should not be allowed.

Carnitiine is needed to make gaba in the brain

 

[Helen]

@bruschi11 PFS BLOOD TESTS( and THEORY )

you see the blood tests of PFS people. you can forward these tests to Greg and ask him what he thinks.

 

[JasonSky]

I'll experiment with this protocol, I ordered iodine and it's on the way. Iodine -> + Selenium 2 weeks in - > Then add molybdenum 4 weeks -> + B2 -> + B12

Even if I don't get the results i'm looking for after 2 months, pretty affordable and virtually no risk so I'll give it a shot

 

[Helen]

I'll experiment with this protocol, I ordered iodine and it's on the way. Iodine -> + Selenium 2 weeks in - > Then add molybdenum 4 weeks -> + B2 -> + B12

Even if I don't get the results i'm looking for after 2 months, pretty affordable and virtually no risk so I'll give it a shot

make sure you have right forms, since wrong forms dont work at all according to Greg.

 

[JasonSky]

make sure you have right forms, since wrong forms dont work at all according to Greg.

Yeah I read through the article, making sure to order the correct forms for sure. Do you think I can still use butyrates with this stack as well? Should be fine I'd imagine

 

[Kjbigman]

b12 is recylced by glutathione reductase, which is FAD enzyme.

Without recycled b12 you dont have folate cycle.

and this causes low adrenaline.

this is electrolytes protocol, I am happy someone is in agreement with me.

Will be interesting to see if the order or replenishement of the minerals will be important.


all PFS people had zero folates and zero glutathione , identical tests. All 10 tests that I saw had exactly the same parameters. I posted 3 of them.


glutathione deficiency will cause NDMA receptor to shut down.

also there will be no carnitine, and thus androgens should not be allowed.

Carnitiine is needed to make gaba in the brain

So the root cause of glutathione's death is vitamin B2? How does fin kill B2?

 

[Kjbigman]

Forgive me I am not a biochemist so this stuff is very confusing to me. looks like maybe finasteride puts pressure on Cytochrome reductase enzymes, so like something in Fin's metabolism reduces b2. So I wonder if you could also just induce CYP450 and make it faster....or supply extra cofactors?

^This image is the "mixed function oxidase activity of 7a-hydroxylase"

 

[Helen]

So the root cause of glutathione's death is vitamin B2? How does fin kill B2?

glutathione reductase is a FAD enzyme which works on NADPH.

fin kills NADPH. I assume.


All 450 cyps work on FAD and NADPH as you can see from the chart you posted. Flavin is Fad

 

[bruschi11]

I'll experiment with this protocol, I ordered iodine and it's on the way. Iodine -> + Selenium 2 weeks in - > Then add molybdenum 4 weeks -> + B2 -> + B12

Even if I don't get the results i'm looking for after 2 months, pretty affordable and virtually no risk so I'll give it a shot

You may need b1 too w/ b2 at least at the start.

 

[Helen]

@Kjbigman this is why you get hemolytic anemia on fin , similar to G6pd deficiency. if you already had low NADPH levels.

finasteride can be used only in high NADPH cases. IMO

 

[Kjbigman]

I'm not sure how fin kills NADPH. I'm just trying to get to the root cause here. Not sure how FAD comes BEFORE NADPH, assuming fin kills NADPH.
What if the problem is even further back to ATP synthesis? (Also, something scary is that I have ALS symptoms and apparently FAD is reduced in ALS).

1) In general, NADP+ is synthesized before NADPH is. Such a reaction usually starts with NAD+ from either the de-novo or the salvage pathway, with NAD+ kinase adding the extra phosphate group. This step requires ATP.

2) NADPH is produced from NADP+. The major source of NADPH in animals and other non-photosynthetic organisms is the pentose phosphate pathway (oxPPP), by Glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase (G6PDH) in the first step.

Some questions: how does Finasteride actually reduce NADPH? How does increasing FAD lead to correction of low NADPH?

Also, final note, I read that nicotinamide (b3) can actually INHIBIT NADPH reduction. Something to consider. I have always been supplementing with it since I thought it was precursor.

 

[A98648]

@Helen FYI Not all of those are his quotes. When I was telling you about him on skype all that stuff I wrote above was mostly from memory so it might not be 100% right. The quotes with GRJ are definitely correct tho.

Anyone that wants to know more about him and his protocol I would encourage you to join the FB group "Understanding B12 Deficiency". It's based on his protocol and correspondence. Understanding B12 deficiency

Also if anyone has OAT and hair test email him.

@bruschi11 https://b12oils.com/rnb.htm

the guys name is Greg. He is a biochemist with 40 year experience.


Here are some of his quotes:

Fix FAD before being able to fix NADPH.. and molybdenum, selenium and iodine have to be those types to build the pathway

5-AR enzymes require NADPH. NADPH needs B1 enzyme to work.

In chronic B2 deficiency you have problems as 3 of the 4 enzymes that use TPP (from thiamine) also require B2 and so in B2 deficiency B1 is lost.

One of the early enzymes in Estrogen synthesis is aromatase., Which is a B2 dependent enzyme

Aromatase requires FAD. For FAD to work it needs B2 and for B2 to work it requires co-factors Iodine, Selenium (sodium selenate), Molybdenum (sodium molybdate)

FAD pathway takes 1-3 months to start working again.

B12 needs B2 to work.

Glutathione needs b2 to work

Ceruloplasmin should work after building FAD pathway

Low cortisol should normalise after fixing fad and b12

Sibo should get better

Etc etc

SIBO:
""As far as gut motility goes, this is basically controlled by 3 things that are vitamin dependent. Histamine, serotonin and Nitric oxide. Histamine production indirectly depends upon B2 levels (and also B6), whilst serotonin depends upon TPH2 status, as well as iron/B2/folate/B12, whilst NO depends upon NOS, which depends upon iron/ B2/folate/B12/B3. If you muck with these then you don't get proper gut motility and this then causes conditions such as IBS and bacterial over-growth.”--©️GRJ

B6 function is dependent on B2, according to GRJ.

"Once you get B12 fixed it should deal with histamine issues, plus it will help mature the gut and it induces a whole bunch of intestinal enzymes that are protective. You can get all sorts of bugs growing when your metabolismis out of whack as you are excreting large amounts of carbon sources and small sugars, which they love to grow on."--GRJ

 

[Kjbigman]

5α-Reductase reduces the steroid Δ4,5 double bond in testosterone to its more active form DHT. Thus, inhibition results in decreased amounts of DHT. Because of this, slight elevations in testosterone and estradiol levels occur.[35]

The 5α-reductase reaction is a rate-limiting step in the testosterone reduction and involves the binding of NADPH to the enzyme followed by the substrate.[4][36]
Substrate + NADPH + H+ → 5α-substrate + NADP+

Not sure how to read the above.... but perhaps this is the mechanism of how fin would reduce NADPH levels. Somehow it binds NADPH to the 5a-reductase..........

 

[Helen]

5α-Reductase reduces the steroid Δ4,5 double bond in testosterone to its more active form DHT. Thus, inhibition results in decreased amounts of DHT. Because of this, slight elevations in testosterone and estradiol levels occur.[35]

The 5α-reductase reaction is a rate-limiting step in the testosterone reduction and involves the binding of NADPH to the enzyme followed by the substrate.[4][36]
Substrate + NADPH + H+ → 5α-substrate + NADP+

Not sure how to read the above.... but perhaps this is the mechanism of how fin would reduce NADPH levels. Somehow it binds NADPH to the 5a-reductase..........

I have been writing this for years here you can search all my posts.

This thread could have nothing to do with PFS.