HIGH and LOW DHT and PFS cases ( protocols , explanations, theories)

Helen

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Oct 5, 2017
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#1
Recently we talked about high and low DHT cases in PFS. These cases are totally different and react to absolutely different things. Here I will try to propose the explanation why and what is happening, based on everything that we know so far. ( the reactions of people to supplements, the reaction of people to anavar, the offical studies and CURES of postfinasteride syndrome which were posted in offical studies)


IN my opinion

1) low DHT people ( with inhibited axis) have overexpressed ARs in DHT sensitive tissues. This stops their 5AR from working, which impairs allopregnenolone levels ( they have anxiety)
These people react badly to DHT supplements and feel much better on anavar.( which blocks AR receptors) ,

2) high DHT people, have GABA A receptor problem , which stops 3 alpha hsd from working, which raises their progesterone, which blocks their AR receptors, and this then raises DHT levels. these people feel much better on ella which kills their progesterone and opens up androgen receptor.



Case 1. description.

feel terrible on androgens and crash on them even though their testosterone levels could be low in some cases.

These people need to go on testosterone low dose and keep at it, until they wont crash anymore. Testosterone does not create any low testosterone states.

Testosterone simply binds NADPH molecule and creates DHT. Testosterone plus NADPH= DHT. you cant handle DHT, you crash on it. so you need to take tiny amounts of it, to get your body used to DHT again. or take tiny amounts of testosterone which will keep pushing creation of DHT also in tiny amounts and slowly get your body to be accustomed to higher DHT levels

This is what tribulus does. and people keep crashing on it. but if you keep at it. it will restore you and as it restored many people on propeciahelp

This is what Cdnuts protocol is. Basicallly in this case you need to increase your 5AR and keep it high , so the body gets acclimated to higher DHT levels and downregulates the receptors.

when receptors get downregulated, the body will want more 5AR action, and this will increase allopregnenolone, all by itself and anxiety will stop.




Case 2 description

the main problem is GABA A receptor. These people should feel better on dht. since progesterone is blocking their Androgen receptor.

As soon as these people downregulate GABA A receptor , they 3 alpha hsd will open up and it will start converting progesterone further into allopregnenolone and DHT into 3 adiol. Progesterone will fall, and androgen receptor blockage will stop.

These people feel better on ella. the feel better on ginko. which is gaba receptor antagonist.( but IMO those are just stilts.)) I think these might be the people who responded to GHB and got cured.

So gaba agonist should make these people feel worse. but may be cure them over time.




So these things above if tried should make people feel worse when tried and work on snapbacks.( IMO how cure should be)


Now lets see stilts which should make these people better

1) these people feel better on anavar. these people feel better on gaba agonists. or gaba receptor agonists. they would feel better if they increase density of gaba a receptors.

2) these people feel better on DHT, and they feel better on gaba antagonists( ginko) . these people feel better if they increase density of their AR receptors

it is important to understand that these are stilts. you are basically not fixing anything. for instance in case of number 2. your progesterone is blocking your AR. so if you increase the density of the ARs, you will feel better ( but the goal is to fix gaba) and this will lower progesterone and free up androgen receptor.


here is the offical study https://www.omicsonline.org/open-ac...eview-of-the-literature-2472-1212-1000170.pdf

where they cured people from PFS with low levels of DHT n blood with test ( dht ) and aromatase inhibitors( which makes sense, since you basically do the opposite of what finasteride did to them)


Same therapy DID NOT work for high DHT people which is understanable why if this theory described above is correct.




Lets discuss this, I think this is pretty much straightforward.





This can be done with minerals and vitamins, also.

Low dose finasteride regimen( which worked for some people) creates spikes in NADPH after it unbinds it. in 4-7 hours. Basically like taking low doses of DHT. It creates DHT spikes.

So it would have been a proper way of getting off of it. Not really decreasing the dosages daily taken, but decreasing the number of days which you take it on.

This would keep that supersexual period last longer and it will give the body ability to get adjusted to it.




I mentioned before that fin binds NADPH. so if we keep spiking NADPH we can downregulate what fin was doing.

NADPH oxidase is the enzyme which breaks down NADPH, and this enzyme can be inhibited by hydrogen peroxide as an example.


NADPH oxidase is the enzyme which makes hydrogen perioxide for the thyroid gland. that is why NADPH oxidase effects your IMMUNE system ( since it is your IMMUNE SYSTM ) and also it effects thyroid since it makes thyroid hormones.. may be some people have forms of hashimoto


Lets discuss this. I could mix these cases with other


another possibility is that gaba problem causes LH inhibition in one cases. So we need to take into account, that cases could be inverted.
 
Last edited:

RebelWithACause

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#3
Is this about FREE DHT levels?

For example I had low-ish DHT and high progesterone on the last blood test I did. Which does not fit what you outline.

I also used Ella and felt better on it. Not cured though.

What would be an approach with minerals/vitamins?
 

Helen

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Oct 5, 2017
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#4
Is this about FREE DHT levels?

For example I had low-ish DHT and high progesterone on the last blood test I did. Which does not fit what you outline.

I also used Ella and felt better on it. Not cured though.

What would be an approach with minerals/vitamins?

of course it fits, both cases would have high progesterone level. Since progesterone is raised to retain potassium in low DHT cases. and to oppose DHT
 

Admiral

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Dec 12, 2017
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#5
Lowish DHT, high progesterone here too. I think I might try low dose R-Andro somewhere after my current or next TEI cycle.
 
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barbaar

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Oct 16, 2017
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#6
this is still a draft, I want people to chime in so we discuss may be I got some things mixed up.

I would assume low DHT people will have more androgenic action, and high DHT lower androgenic action.

SO low DHT people have actually more beard growth in PFS. and high DHT lower
Dunno if it helps since I'm PSSD, but I have high dht and my beard grows super slow and I have less, and thinner body hair than other guys in my family (even my younger brother)
 
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Boris

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Oct 3, 2017
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#7
To be clear, the high and low DHT would be referenced to being too low or too high outside if the normal or reference range on a lab test right?
 
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Boris

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#8
For example, my DHT was right in the middle and when I took anavar my DHT rose higher, which means it was blocking DHT while I was on
 

brix

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Oct 4, 2017
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#9
@Helen you mentioned that Ella is A stilt but in all honesty is the only thing that has left permanent positive results. Most likely from upregulating/downregulating progesterone receptors.
 

Helen

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#11
@Helen you mentioned that Ella is A stilt but in all honesty is the only thing that has left permanent positive results. Most likely from upregulating/downregulating progesterone receptors.
it is possible if progesterone is also at play, I agree
 

Helen

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#13
Interesting, could you classify symtomps for case 1 and 2. E.g. would slowed beard growth be caused by case 1 or 2? Or less masculine face for example.
I would assume low dht people to be more androgenic, than high dht.
 
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Helen

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#14
Prog has to be at play if it is usually high in PFS, right? High to oppose estrogen and DHT

you need to read what I wrote again you have low DHT. you are fast oxidizer. right?

ella is not a stilt for you.
 
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Goose12

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Oct 6, 2017
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#16
I am a saw sufferer but believe I was a high dht case. If I take anything that raises dht (r andro) a lot of my symptoms return. Hairloss, itching/ burning scalp, wider face, dry joints, complete loss of labido, aching testicles, and racing thoughts.
 

Helen

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Oct 5, 2017
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#17
I am a saw sufferer but believe I was a high dht case. If I take anything that raises dht (r andro) a lot of my symptoms return. Hairloss, itching/ burning scalp, wider face, dry joints, complete loss of labido, aching testicles, and racing thoughts.
if you were losing manganese in in the hairtest, that means the body was trying to lower DHT.

that is why when they were giving you manganese they were increasing your DHT.
 

Trump_1776

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#18
Recently we talked about high and low DHT cases in PFS. These cases are totally different and react to absolutely different things. Here I will try to propose the explanation why and what is happening, based on everything that we know so far. ( the reactions of people to supplements, the reaction of people to anavar, the offical studies and CURES of postfinasteride syndrome which were posted in offical studies)


IN my opinion

1) low DHT people ( with inhibited axis) have overexpressed ARs in DHT sensitive tissues. This stops their 5AR from working, which impairs allopregnenolone levels ( they have anxiety)
These people react badly to DHT supplements and feel much better on anavar.( which blocks AR receptors) ,

2) high DHT people, have GABA A receptor problem , which stops 3 alpha hsd from working, which raises their progesterone, which blocks their AR receptors, and this then raises DHT levels. these people feel much better on ella which kills their progesterone and opens up androgen receptor.



Case 1. description.

feel terrible on androgens and crash on them even though their testosterone levels could be low in some cases.

These people need to go on testosterone low dose and keep at it, until they wont crash anymore. Testosterone does not create any low testosterone states.

Testosterone simply binds NADPH molecule and creates DHT. Testosterone plus NADPH= DHT. you cant handle DHT, you crash on it. so you need to take tiny amounts of it, to get your body used to DHT again. or take tiny amounts of testosterone which will keep pushing creation of DHT also in tiny amounts and slowly get your body to be accustomed to higher DHT levels

This is what tribulus does. and people keep crashing on it. but if you keep at it. it will restore you and as it restored many people on propeciahelp

This is what Cdnuts protocol is. Basicallly in this case you need to increase your 5AR and keep it high , so the body gets acclimated to higher DHT levels and downregulates the receptors.

when receptors get downregulated, the body will want more 5AR action, and this will increase allopregnenolone, all by itself and anxiety will stop.




Case 2 description

the main problem is GABA A receptor. These people should feel better on dht. since progesterone is blocking their Androgen receptor.

As soon as these people downregulate GABA A receptor , they 3 alpha hsd will open up and it will start converting progesterone further into allopregnenolone and DHT into 3 adiol. Progesterone will fall, and androgen receptor blockage will stop.

These people feel better on ella. the feel better on ginko. which is gaba receptor antagonist.( but IMO those are just stilts.)) I think these might be the people who responded to GHB and got cured.

So gaba agonist should make these people feel worse. but may be cure them over time.




So these things above if tried should make people feel worse when tried and work on snapbacks.( IMO how cure should be)


Now lets see stilts which should make these people better

1) these people feel better on anavar. these people feel better on gaba agonists. or gaba receptor agonists. they would feel better if they increase density of gaba a receptors.

2) these people feel better on DHT, and they feel better on gaba antagonists( ginko) . these people feel better if they increase density of their AR receptors

it is important to understand that these are stilts. you are basically not fixing anything. for instance in case of number 2. your progesterone is blocking your AR. so if you increase the density of the ARs, you will feel better ( but the goal is to fix gaba) and this will lower progesterone and free up androgen receptor.


here is the offical study https://www.omicsonline.org/open-ac...eview-of-the-literature-2472-1212-1000170.pdf

where they cured people from PFS with low levels of DHT n blood with test ( dht ) and aromatase inhibitors( which makes sense, since you basically do the opposite of what finasteride did to them)


Same therapy DID NOT work for high DHT people which is understanable why if this theory described above is correct.




Lets discuss this, I think this is pretty much straightforward.





This can be done with minerals and vitamins, also.

Low dose finasteride regimen( which worked for some people) creates spikes in NADPH after it unbinds it. in 4-7 hours. Basically like taking low doses of DHT. It creates DHT spikes.

So it would have been a proper way of getting off of it. Not really decreasing the dosages daily taken, but decreasing the number of days which you take it on.

This would keep that supersexual period last longer and it will give the body ability to get adjusted to it.




I mentioned before that fin binds NADPH. so if we keep spiking NADPH we can downregulate what fin was doing.

NADPH oxidase is the enzyme which breaks down NADPH, and this enzyme can be inhibited by hydrogen peroxide as an example.


NADPH oxidase is the enzyme which makes hydrogen perioxide for the thyroid gland. that is why NADPH oxidase effects your IMMUNE system ( since it is your IMMUNE SYSTM ) and also it effects thyroid since it makes thyroid hormones.. may be some people have forms of hashimoto


Lets discuss this.
When you say to go on Test, do you recommend injections? Perhaps you could go into more detail for peeps
 

Olski69

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May 11, 2018
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#19
I am a saw sufferer but believe I was a high dht case. If I take anything that raises dht (r andro) a lot of my symptoms return. Hairloss, itching/ burning scalp, wider face, dry joints, complete loss of labido, aching testicles, and racing thoughts.
I have a feeling I might react the same way as you did, hence why I have not tried the R-ANDRO yet. Bought some in case as I think they are stopping production of the Iron Mag Labs version. I just saw your blood test, no joke, we have nearly identical panels! Before I got unwell with all this shit my SHBG was much lower. I would love to know why in PFS cases SHBG rises so much.
 
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Goose12

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#20
@Helen
Androsterone - Wikipedia
Androsterone is also known to be an inhibitoryandrostane neurosteroid,[5][6] acting as a positive allosteric modulator of the GABAAreceptor,[7] and possesses anticonvulsanteffects.[8] The unnatural enantiomer of androsterone is more potent as a positive allosteric modulator of GABAA receptors and as an anticonvulsant than the natural form.[9]Androsterone's 3β-isomer is epiandrosterone, and its 5β-epimer is etiocholanolone. The 3β,5β-isomer is epietiocholanolone.

Doesn't this mean rndro could be the cure for both cases? Maybe one would be better with higher or lower doses.
 
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