Concerned PFS Log

Concerned

Well-Known Member
Mar 19, 2018
75
38
18
32
UK
#1
Hello to all, I'll start with the brief version of events for those lean on time and then do a full detail beneath that.

BRIEF VERSION:

1. Took 4 doses of 0.25mg propecia over five days.

2. Trouble sleeping after second day on, strong tingling and ache in right testicle, feeling as though mild anesthetic had been applied to penis glans. Stopped using after fifth day.

3. The three days that followed cessation were fine, libido and erectile quality all still normal, sleep perfect.

4. The fourth day following cessation, whilst beginning to eat a bowl of oats, suddenly felt a horrendous mental sensation where it felt as though I couldn't read off the screen properly. Felt different afterwards.

5. Since the day after that happened, it feels as though my whole organism has changed. Getting worse day by day. NO appetite, BAD sleep or none at all and practically COMPLETE loss of erections. Also having brain fog on and off and a feeling as though queasy on a boat at sea. Been stuck lying under a duvet on the couch for majority of the week. The worst I have ever felt.


The crash happened a week ago today. It is 15 days since my first dose of fin and 11 days since my last.

My most pressing questions:

1. Is there any precedent for someone having this dramatic of a crash then fully recovering naturally a few weeks later (medical literature suggests if side effects experienced, will clear up a few weeks after stopping for most people).

2. Had emergency appointment with GP yesterday. He tried to reassure me that it should all clear up in a few weeks and gave me zopiclone to help with sleep. Are these ok to take in my current state?

3. Should I get cialis/viagra NOW to help keep blood flow to genitals? Scared of permanent damage to penis, it already feels different and has a rubber like feeling, glans shrunk.

4. I'm eating between 400-800 calories a day at the minute. I can feel my body is hungry but I have no appetite to eat, nothing appeals. Often when I do eat, my brain fog/anxiety kicks in shortly afterwards. Should I be trying to get my appetite back and feed my body to try and heal it or should I just go straight for a juice feast/water fast? Some days I've more or less been water fasting.


I don't think I'll last more than a couple of weeks in my present state. Body is wasting away, I can barely eat and barely sleep. Already having thoughts of dying, considering calling the samaritans. How can I get better if I can't eat? I'm renowned for my appetite and have eaten around 3500 calories a day for over five years now. What am I supposed to do here?

I apologise for what must seem like an extremely dramatic post but it's how I'm genuinely feeling right now. Any input will be extremely appreciated and cherished.
 

bruschi11

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2017
557
329
63
29
Boston, MA
#2
I know your pain man and a lot of us do. Stay calm. Don’t do anything dramatic yet.

You can get better from this. But realize that it did cause a major issue in your system causing these horrible symptoms.

PFS is an imbalance caused by finasteride that allows disease (pathogens) and toxicities to thrive and wreck havoc in your system. It also causes a loss of sexuality as you have noted. But you can get DEFINITELY get better from it.

This isn’t a life ending diagnosis if you have it. You’re not impotent for life. This is something that can be fixed possibly within 3-6 months if you are persistent. So don’t panic and be ready to put your hard hat on.
 

wuf

Well-Known Member
Oct 4, 2017
599
81
28
#3
Hello to all, I'll start with the brief version of events for those lean on time and then do a full detail beneath that.

BRIEF VERSION:

1. Took 4 doses of 0.25mg propecia over five days.

2. Trouble sleeping after second day on, strong tingling and ache in right testicle, feeling as though mild anesthetic had been applied to penis glans. Stopped using after fifth day.

3. The three days that followed cessation were fine, libido and erectile quality all still normal, sleep perfect.

4. The fourth day following cessation, whilst beginning to eat a bowl of oats, suddenly felt a horrendous mental sensation where it felt as though I couldn't read off the screen properly. Felt different afterwards.

5. Since the day after that happened, it feels as though my whole organism has changed. Getting worse day by day. NO appetite, BAD sleep or none at all and practically COMPLETE loss of erections. Also having brain fog on and off and a feeling as though queasy on a boat at sea. Been stuck lying under a duvet on the couch for majority of the week. The worst I have ever felt.


The crash happened a week ago today. It is 15 days since my first dose of fin and 11 days since my last.

My most pressing questions:

1. Is there any precedent for someone having this dramatic of a crash then fully recovering naturally a few weeks later (medical literature suggests if side effects experienced, will clear up a few weeks after stopping for most people).

2. Had emergency appointment with GP yesterday. He tried to reassure me that it should all clear up in a few weeks and gave me zopiclone to help with sleep. Are these ok to take in my current state?

3. Should I get cialis/viagra NOW to help keep blood flow to genitals? Scared of permanent damage to penis, it already feels different and has a rubber like feeling, glans shrunk.

4. I'm eating between 400-800 calories a day at the minute. I can feel my body is hungry but I have no appetite to eat, nothing appeals. Often when I do eat, my brain fog/anxiety kicks in shortly afterwards. Should I be trying to get my appetite back and feed my body to try and heal it or should I just go straight for a juice feast/water fast? Some days I've more or less been water fasting.


I don't think I'll last more than a couple of weeks in my present state. Body is wasting away, I can barely eat and barely sleep. Already having thoughts of dying, considering calling the samaritans. How can I get better if I can't eat? I'm renowned for my appetite and have eaten around 3500 calories a day for over five years now. What am I supposed to do here?

I apologise for what must seem like an extremely dramatic post but it's how I'm genuinely feeling right now. Any input will be extremely appreciated and cherished.
Do not use anything at the moment, keep waiting praying you can recover fast and naturally.
I would suggest you to eat well, do sport (heavy weight) and try to sleep and rest.
 

Concerned

Well-Known Member
Mar 19, 2018
75
38
18
32
UK
#4
I know your pain man and a lot of us do. Stay calm. Don’t do anything dramatic yet.

You can get better from this. But realize that it did cause a major issue in your system causing these horrible symptoms.

PFS is an imbalance caused by finasteride that allows disease (pathogens) and toxicities to thrive and wreck havoc in your system. It also causes a loss of sexuality as you have noted. But you can get DEFINITELY get better from it.

This isn’t a life ending diagnosis if you have it. You’re not impotent for life. This is something that can be fixed possibly within 3-6 months if you are persistent. So don’t panic and be ready to put your hard hat on.
Thank you for this post. I'm trying to stay calm. Today has been the worst day though, can't even watch tv, seems too distressing/noisy. My whole body feels like it's shutting down. Body temp has been up and down randomly since the crash too.

Do not use anything at the moment, keep waiting praying you can recover fast and naturally.
I would suggest you to eat well, do sport (heavy weight) and try to sleep and rest.
Thank you. I can barely move off the couch. When I close my eyes to sleep at night, I almost immediately get waking vivid dreamlike visions that prevent me from falling into slumber. Once I do eventually pass out, I awake 2-4 hours later, every time. I can barely eat at all let alone well. I'm slipping into catatonia here
 

TubZy

Administrator
Staff member
Oct 3, 2017
1,363
632
113
#5
Yes, don't do anything yet as you are still early if stopping the drug. You could potentially make a full recovery easily without the use of anything, so just hold on for a bit longer here and see how you feel. If you wanted to try something first, water fasting would probably make the most sense.
 
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bruschi11

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2017
557
329
63
29
Boston, MA
#6
The crash happened a week ago today. It is 15 days since my first dose of fin and 11 days since my last.

My most pressing questions:

1. Is there any precedent for someone having this dramatic of a crash then fully recovering naturally a few weeks later (medical literature suggests if side effects experienced, will clear up a few weeks after stopping for most people).

2. Had emergency appointment with GP yesterday. He tried to reassure me that it should all clear up in a few weeks and gave me zopiclone to help with sleep. Are these ok to take in my current state?

3. Should I get cialis/viagra NOW to help keep blood flow to genitals? Scared of permanent damage to penis, it already feels different and has a rubber like feeling, glans shrunk.

4. I'm eating between 400-800 calories a day at the minute. I can feel my body is hungry but I have no appetite to eat, nothing appeals. Often when I do eat, my brain fog/anxiety kicks in shortly afterwards. Should I be trying to get my appetite back and feed my body to try and heal it or should I just go straight for a juice feast/water fast? Some days I've more or less been water fasting.


I don't think I'll last more than a couple of weeks in my present state. Body is wasting away, I can barely eat and barely sleep. Already having thoughts of dying, considering calling the samaritans. How can I get better if I can't eat? I'm renowned for my appetite and have eaten around 3500 calories a day for over five years now. What am I supposed to do here?

I apologise for what must seem like an extremely dramatic post but it's how I'm genuinely feeling right now. Any input will be extremely appreciated and cherished.
1) I have seen stories of guys getting better within a month, but I don't know if this dramatic of a crash. Usually when someone stops the drug they slowly get better and stay better. OR they stop the drug and get better whether it is quickly or slowly over a few days/weeks/months.

Honestly man? With this dramatic of a crash, you likely have/had something wrong in your system all along. This may be a blessing in disguise in the long run!

2) Don't get addicted! If you NEED something- I would try an antidepressant such as mirtazapine or cyproheptadine. Cyproheptadine is lighter and probably the better choice. But at my worst, mirtazapine as an absolute godsend. It gave me a normality feeling that allowed me to focus on doing what I had to do to get better. Impotent AF and all but man this drug helped me get it together.

3) No- I was bad down there for a long time. Really 5-7 or so months of horrible shrinkage/impotence. I woke up this morning with my dick pointing at the sky looking as pretty as ever. Gross but I piss in a big water bottle middle of the night (living somewhat of frat type life during recovery haha but it also keeps me from walking all the way around apartment and waking me up) and this morning I woke up and it was an absolute bitch to piss in due to the stiffness of my dick :).

4) Sleep is #1. You gotta start doing that. I wouldn't do anything until you can find a way to get 6-7 solid hours of sleep at night. If cyproheptadine, mirtazapine is step #1 then go for it. Don't get stuck addicted to zoplicone. I had a horrible time with this stuff.

Other things to do in meantime.

-Comprehensive parasitology testing.
- Geneva Diagnostics gut testing- I forget name of test I use but it really is able to look at gut bacterias and give you and overall state of your gut/system.
- ARL or TEI hair mineral analysis

Good luck man. You got hit. No doubt about it. I got hit like this and many guys have. You can get better from this no doubt in my mind. How old are you and do you have a history of illness? Did you feel yourself possibly aging prematurely before this?
 

Concerned

Well-Known Member
Mar 19, 2018
75
38
18
32
UK
#7
1) I have seen stories of guys getting better within a month, but I don't know if this dramatic of a crash. Usually when someone stops the drug they slowly get better and stay better. OR they stop the drug and get better whether it is quickly or slowly over a few days/weeks/months.

Honestly man? With this dramatic of a crash, you likely have/had something wrong in your system all along. This may be a blessing in disguise in the long run!

2) Don't get addicted! If you NEED something- I would try an antidepressant such as mirtazapine or cyproheptadine. Cyproheptadine is lighter and probably the better choice. But at my worst, mirtazapine as an absolute godsend. It gave me a normality feeling that allowed me to focus on doing what I had to do to get better. Impotent AF and all but man this drug helped me get it together.

3) No- I was bad down there for a long time. Really 5-7 or so months of horrible shrinkage/impotence. I woke up this morning with my dick pointing at the sky looking as pretty as ever. Gross but I piss in a big water bottle middle of the night (living somewhat of frat type life during recovery haha but it also keeps me from walking all the way around apartment and waking me up) and this morning I woke up and it was an absolute bitch to piss in due to the stiffness of my dick :).

4) Sleep is #1. You gotta start doing that. I wouldn't do anything until you can find a way to get 6-7 solid hours of sleep at night. If cyproheptadine, mirtazapine is step #1 then go for it. Don't get stuck addicted to zoplicone. I had a horrible time with this stuff.

Other things to do in meantime.

-Comprehensive parasitology testing.
- Geneva Diagnostics gut testing- I forget name of test I use but it really is able to look at gut bacterias and give you and overall state of your gut/system.
- ARL or TEI hair mineral analysis

Good luck man. You got hit. No doubt about it. I got hit like this and many guys have. You can get better from this no doubt in my mind. How old are you and do you have a history of illness? Did you feel yourself possibly aging prematurely before this?
Thank you. How long does mirtazepine take to work? And I'm now terrified of taking any other pill, does it have scary side effects?

I'm 32 and have had on off depression over the years. Took fluoxetine for five years from my early to mid 20s but haven't used it for about 6 years. Low-ish sex drive last few years but absolutely no problems with erections or stimulation/getting in the mood. Been consistent gym goer for over five years. On the surface, very healthy.
 

Concerned

Well-Known Member
Mar 19, 2018
75
38
18
32
UK
#8
Yes, don't do anything yet as you are still early if stopping the drug. You could potentially make a full recovery easily without the use of anything, so just hold on for a bit longer here and see how you feel. If you wanted to try something first, water fasting would probably make the most sense.
I really, really hope so. I've already ordered a blender and might attempt to start juice feast from tomorrow. Don't know what the intended advice is for the first few weeks after the crash. The leaftlet with fin is a joke, no advice at all.
 
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Lost

Well-Known Member
Dec 21, 2017
94
31
18
23
India
#10
One thing I wished I had done after crashing from isotretinoin is resistance training and HIIT. Exercise is probably the best hormone equalizer. And by exercise I mean RIGOROUS exercise. Google high intensity exercise and resistance training. Dont do moderate exercise like jogging. Just do your warm up and start doing hard exercise. Since PAS and PFS probably happen due to DHT and T which then crash the whole endocrine system, HIIT might prevent that. Start it now.
 

tanedout

Well-Known Member
Oct 17, 2017
194
46
28
#11
Does anybody who's crashed have experience using diazepam to control the anxiety? I have about 5 tablets left over, prescribed for easing nerves while flying.
When I've had phases of really bad anxiety I've tended to watch things on youtube that make you focus on it. I used to watch loads of pilots-eye-view landings, like showing the approach and landing of the airliners from the cockpit. Seemed to really help a lot as you really focus on it.
 
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bruschi11

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2017
557
329
63
29
Boston, MA
#12
Thank you. How long does mirtazepine take to work? And I'm now terrified of taking any other pill, does it have scary side effects?

I'm 32 and have had on off depression over the years. Took fluoxetine for five years from my early to mid 20s but haven't used it for about 6 years. Low-ish sex drive last few years but absolutely no problems with erections or stimulation/getting in the mood. Been consistent gym goer for over five years. On the surface, very healthy.
Yup I think your depression has stemmed from deeper issues. Along with the low-ish sex drive.

Mirtazapine will hit you hard at first- legit within hours. You'll be very tired and hungry for a few days to a week in most cases. Metabolism will slow down a bit.

I remember when I took it initially I slept the whole day. VERY RARE to have a bad reaction to it like a PSSD victim would have. I guess there are stories out there of people but like extremely rare compared to other antidepressants.
 

bruschi11

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2017
557
329
63
29
Boston, MA
#13
Does anybody who's crashed have experience using diazepam to control the anxiety? I have about 5 tablets left over, prescribed for easing nerves while flying.
Yea I used it and other benzos a bunch for 5 months or so following crash. You can use but don't become reliant. That's why I like the mirtazapine, cyproheptadine the best. Benzos can fuck up the gaba receptor in the brain. You can lose sensitivity to allopregnanolone I believe.
 

Goose12

Well-Known Member
Oct 6, 2017
202
121
43
#14
Sorry to hear that you are going through this but we have all been there. I recommend a water fast right away to try and rebalanced your hormones. I would fast for 7 days and refeed for at least a week, paleo diet, before trying anything else.

I think you need to do something now instead of waiting. There is a chance your body can snap out of this naturally but I also think the longer you stay like this the more your body is thrown out of balance.

Your cortisol and progesterone is out wack right now and your body is wasting minerals and holding onto others, trying to find balance. I have a theory that if someone would jump on RU or ella soon after crashing they would make almost a full recovery before the body gets to far out of balance. But like others have said you probably had an imbalance before this so arl hair test would also be a good idea.

Good luck! The best thing you have done so far is find this site.

Mifepristone (RU486) Source
 

Concerned

Well-Known Member
Mar 19, 2018
75
38
18
32
UK
#15
I’m overwhelmed by how fast and supportive the responses have been here so far, you guys are basically angels. I’ve just walked out of the GP’s with a mirtazepine prescription. The GP had absolutely no idea what to do with me, I’m telling him that overnight I can’t eat, sleep or get an erection and he’s talking about getting me to a cognitive behavioural therapist. I nearly started crying there and then, I feel crazy at the moment. I’m gonna try and hold out for a few more days but if no improvement comes, even if slight, I’ll start taking the mirtazepine.

The only thing is, could it jeopardise a recovery? If I get desperate enough it’s a moot point.

And I’m torn between trying to force myself to eat as much as possible as conventional wisdom suggests the body needs the nutrients but all recovery protocols regarding finasteride suggest fasting in some form. It’s unintuitive but I do wonder if my body’s trying to tell me something by basically refusing to eat.
 

Chapman

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2018
76
37
18
29
U.K.
#16
@Concerned Listen to the more experienced lads on here mate @TubZy, @bruschi11, @Goose12. I'll add my 2 cents for what its worth. I think goose is right do a water fast then ella or ru, if you jump in quick you maybe able to avoid all this shit from properly starting. Id then start the electrolyte protocol that's my plan anyway.
 
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bruschi11

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2017
557
329
63
29
Boston, MA
#17
I’m overwhelmed by how fast and supportive the responses have been here so far, you guys are basically angels. I’ve just walked out of the GP’s with a mirtazepine prescription. The GP had absolutely no idea what to do with me, I’m telling him that overnight I can’t eat, sleep or get an erection and he’s talking about getting me to a cognitive behavioural therapist. I nearly started crying there and then, I feel crazy at the moment. I’m gonna try and hold out for a few more days but if no improvement comes, even if slight, I’ll start taking the mirtazepine.

The only thing is, could it jeopardise a recovery? If I get desperate enough it’s a moot point.

And I’m torn between trying to force myself to eat as much as possible as conventional wisdom suggests the body needs the nutrients but all recovery protocols regarding finasteride suggest fasting in some form. It’s unintuitive but I do wonder if my body’s trying to tell me something by basically refusing to eat.
Yea I couldn't eat at first, but it took me some time after solving my problems until I was actually ready to start fasting. You may be ready now, I don't know- we are all different. I think mirtazapine will make you hungry which is good in this situation.

I think finasteride let something loose that has been affecting you for a long time. I'd see a naturopath or some sort of infectious disease doctor. Really look at what I mentioned in that first post.

But either way, you'll be following similar stuff. I just posted a little bit in another blog (at end of this paragraph) about some stuff I'd do originally. If you're really messed up and its deemed pathogen based being the basis of your issues- a RIFE machine wouldn't be a bad idea. Autoimmune disease by bacterias

Overall, its 2018, and because of this website and a ton of brave dudes who showed you can get better in the early 2010s like @Cdsnuts @gbolduev , chi and ihateproecia702 (propeciahelp recovery stories)- we know you can get better from this. Its a much better time to come down with this than even 8 months ago.

Don't be scared. Just maybe be a little pissed off about how you feel and definitely this will be a little setback in your life. But when you start improving and feeling better and better, you may be glad this even happened. Best of luck!
 

Goose12

Well-Known Member
Oct 6, 2017
202
121
43
#18
I’m overwhelmed by how fast and supportive the responses have been here so far, you guys are basically angels. I’ve just walked out of the GP’s with a mirtazepine prescription. The GP had absolutely no idea what to do with me, I’m telling him that overnight I can’t eat, sleep or get an erection and he’s talking about getting me to a cognitive behavioural therapist. I nearly started crying there and then, I feel crazy at the moment. I’m gonna try and hold out for a few more days but if no improvement comes, even if slight, I’ll start taking the mirtazepine.

The only thing is, could it jeopardise a recovery? If I get desperate enough it’s a moot point.

And I’m torn between trying to force myself to eat as much as possible as conventional wisdom suggests the body needs the nutrients but all recovery protocols regarding finasteride suggest fasting in some form. It’s unintuitive but I do wonder if my body’s trying to tell me something by basically refusing to eat.
The more I think about it you need to do something now. Fasting, ru, and the electrolyte protocol are a good start. You have nothing to lose to try these protocols while you wait to see if you get better naturally.

After my first crash I did nothing for months and never got any better. I actually slowly got worse until I crashed again. Things did not start improving until I started jumping on protocols.

I strongly recommend ru.
 

MNK99

Well-Known Member
Nov 6, 2017
695
335
63
underworld
#19
I did nothing for months too, I should have fasted immediately (I kind of did, but not extended).
Looking at outlines of recovery regiments alone was extremely scary. Had I done something 5-6months earlier, I'd be back in my primary city,
and working in a good job, and healthy again quicker. I'm doing much better now but still have a long road ahead of me, possibly. The point is, I lived super ill,
needlessly... Maybe it was part of this process, but I went from being in my prime to wishing to end it all very rapidly. Something has to be done as
quickly as possible, to minimize the damage not just with PFS but for the fallout it causes.

Extended Fasting can help a lot. With this site, no one should make the mistake I did.... conquering one illness and getting another one like a decade later.
At least there's methods on here that others have used and can serve as a template (and discussion as well can do this) for your individual recovery plan, and
everyone's really.
 
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Chapman

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2018
76
37
18
29
U.K.
#20
My experience is similar, its been a year since I crashed and little has improved in that time, I went through a phase or trying to ignore, it assuming it was in my head and would pass... it didn't. I still wake up everyday with a a hangover. I'm not trying to scaremonger but you may be able to catch it early. Ella is pretty easy to get hold of here, give it a shot, I feel a bit better since I came off it. I imagine Ru is even better.
 
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