Bone loss PFS

Reverse

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#1
Question for everyone fighting pfs or recovered:

Does anyone have loss in bone mass?

It looks like my ankles, wrists and knuckles bones are not as prominent anymore.

The weird thing is I'm still the same height, my wingspan (arm length shoulder to shoulder) is still the same, and my foot size is still the same. so what is going on?

Did anyone notice this issue and improve?
any feedback is appreciated thanks guys.
 

Minime

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Oct 4, 2017
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#2
Question for everyone fighting pfs or recovered:

Does anyone have loss in bone mass?

It looks like my ankles, wrists and knuckles bones are not as prominent anymore.

The weird thing is I'm still the same height, my wingspan (arm length shoulder to shoulder) is still the same, and my foot size is still the same. so what is going on?

Did anyone notice this issue and improve?
any feedback is appreciated thanks guys.
My wrists and ankles are noticeably thinner. So are my fingers. Arms and legs are too but that may be muscle wasting or a combination of muscle wasting and bone loss. My head is smaller (all my fitted caps are now too big for my head). I doubt many will believe that last statement about my head/skull, but it’s true.
 
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Reverse

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#3
I believe you, considering the structural changes I see on myself. It's so crazy that this is even happening.

At first I thought the wrinkles on my body were due to muscle loss but upon further observation I see it's bone too.

The question remains if anyone has recovered from this. I'm aware of some studies claiming that raising testosterone increases bone density, but I wonder to what extent. And I also get the feeling there's something more causing bone-loss other than low test.

I hope the more knowledgeable guys will weigh in on this.
 

Reverse

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#4
Just wanted to update that I've been taking Vitamins B2 & B6 for about 3 weeks now as recommended on a site I found.
It took about a week but so far I'm getting some relief from the wrist/hand pain and now have a bit of strength returning to those regions.
The bone loss has not recovered yet though and I get the feeling that will take some years (if at all possible)

I've found some studies saying that increasing testosterone and HGH will increase bone mass.
I'm going the natural route so this will take time. I just hope I don't stay looking and feeling like this.
At least the pain subsiding is a start so some good news there!
 

Continuous Heal

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#6
During the depths of my pfs experience, I 100% felt as if there was something happening to my bones.

I remember in one instance, a lady playfully kicked me in the shin with her high heel. I had a large bone bruise following and it took months to go away. I knew the second this happened that something was wildly out of the norm. Additionally a small indent on my skull I had since youth became notably larger.

Whatever was happening, it has now stopped. What we're been through / are going through is one of the most intense syndromes I can imagine happening to younger men.
 
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Minime

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#7
I believe I have read that delayed healing is one of the results of PFS. I’ve seen it myself. I scraped my arm once and it took several months for it to disappear. Prior to PFS a minor scrape like that would have been gone in a couple weeks at the most.
 

Slayo

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Nov 5, 2017
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#9
You guys don't have bone loss, you lost subcutaneus fat......i lost real bones, especially in chin and jaw, and the pain and burning i got before they shrunked was really unbelievable
 
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Reverse

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#11
PFS does cause bone loss and it's most likely more than 70% of us that have it to some degree. I can't say definitively how it does but it goes beyond low T.

There seems to be a disorder that happens in bone metabolism, thereby triggering bone and joint pain.

Are you going thru bone loss???
My signs were intense bone/joint pain. I was sensitive to any pressure placed on my bones. Meaning if someone gave me a light punch, push or squeeze, my bones would be in pain. Also, the face will feel strange, the lack of expression, periods of numbness, abnormal gums...are from bone loss and other issues.

To the new guys, I suggest that you learn how bones work and do all you can to combat the loss. Even if you don't feel it when you first crash. I know I didnt, and thought I had light PFS. BULLSHIT. PFS is a progressive deterioration. It's easier to prevent pfs than to reverse it imo. Please heed the advice. I was a very athletic guy throughout my life and had the bone and muscle structure of an athlete. You can tell the difference when u observe people long enough.

I'm the total opposite now and experience shadow bone sensation. I have to remind myself before I engage in heroics that I'm in a different body...it sucks man.

HGH, testosterone, calcium, vitamin D, B vitamins, lifting all contribute to healthy bones. There's more info I'll post as I get time. I have finals now.

Idk if I'll get out of this as most scientific literature states one cannot regrow bone.
There are very few exceptions in research about the possibility of regaining bone mass.

Stay strong guys and don't be lazy if you just woke up and have a broken soldier. Take care of your whole body, your quality life depends on it as well as being able to square up against physical threats in your life.
 

hopeforrecovery

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Jan 8, 2018
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#12
PFS does cause bone loss and it's most likely more than 70% of us that have it to some degree. I can't say definitively how it does but it goes beyond low T.

There seems to be a disorder that happens in bone metabolism, thereby triggering bone and joint pain.

Are you going thru bone loss???
My signs were intense bone/joint pain. I was sensitive to any pressure placed on my bones. Meaning if someone gave me a light punch, push or squeeze, my bones would be in pain. Also, the face will feel strange, the lack of expression, periods of numbness, abnormal gums...are from bone loss and other issues.

To the new guys, I suggest that you learn how bones work and do all you can to combat the loss. Even if you don't feel it when you first crash. I know I didnt, and thought I had light PFS. BULLSHIT. PFS is a progressive deterioration. It's easier to prevent pfs than to reverse it imo. Please heed the advice. I was a very athletic guy throughout my life and had the bone and muscle structure of an athlete. You can tell the difference when u observe people long enough.

I'm the total opposite now and experience shadow bone sensation. I have to remind myself before I engage in heroics that I'm in a different body...it sucks man.

HGH, testosterone, calcium, vitamin D, B vitamins, lifting all contribute to healthy bones. There's more info I'll post as I get time. I have finals now.

Idk if I'll get out of this as most scientific literature states one cannot regrow bone.
There are very few exceptions in research about the possibility of regaining bone mass.

Stay strong guys and don't be lazy if you just woke up and have a broken soldier. Take care of your whole body, your quality life depends on it as well as being able to square up against physical threats in your life.
Have you seen facial changes because of your bone loss?
If yes, do you think that it's reversible?

I feel like my face has changed because of bone loss but I've never experienced pain in bones or something...
 
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Niles

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Jan 25, 2018
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#13
PFS does cause bone loss and it's most likely more than 70% of us that have it to some degree. I can't say definitively how it does but it goes beyond low T.

There seems to be a disorder that happens in bone metabolism, thereby triggering bone and joint pain.

Are you going thru bone loss???
My signs were intense bone/joint pain. I was sensitive to any pressure placed on my bones. Meaning if someone gave me a light punch, push or squeeze, my bones would be in pain. Also, the face will feel strange, the lack of expression, periods of numbness, abnormal gums...are from bone loss and other issues.

To the new guys, I suggest that you learn how bones work and do all you can to combat the loss. Even if you don't feel it when you first crash. I know I didnt, and thought I had light PFS. BULLSHIT. PFS is a progressive deterioration. It's easier to prevent pfs than to reverse it imo. Please heed the advice. I was a very athletic guy throughout my life and had the bone and muscle structure of an athlete. You can tell the difference when u observe people long enough.

I'm the total opposite now and experience shadow bone sensation. I have to remind myself before I engage in heroics that I'm in a different body...it sucks man.

HGH, testosterone, calcium, vitamin D, B vitamins, lifting all contribute to healthy bones. There's more info I'll post as I get time. I have finals now.

Idk if I'll get out of this as most scientific literature states one cannot regrow bone.
There are very few exceptions in research about the possibility of regaining bone mass.

Stay strong guys and don't be lazy if you just woke up and have a broken soldier. Take care of your whole body, your quality life depends on it as well as being able to square up against physical threats in your life.
I think it must also have to do with the electrolyte imbalances and malabsorption, which prompts your body to leech those deficient minerals from your bones.

But I wouldn't take those studies that show bone mass cannot be regained too seriously if I were you, because they don't reflect PFS cases. Bone loss that we have is not part of the natural aging process, and from recovery stories we know that our systems can go from functioning at 20% to functioning at 100% in a matter of months. No current studies, regardless of supplementation, reflect the amount of healing that can occur from a PFS recovery. If there's even a small chance that you can recover the bone loss, why not believe that you will? The obsessive worrying over various PFS symptoms can significantly stress the body and mind, slowing recovery even more. Anyone who has recovered 100% will tell you that one of if not the most important key is to fully believe in your ability to recover. This helps keep you moving forward, keep your mood up, and keep stress low which are all essential.

Good points made regarding precautions against bone loss, though, as many of us could benefit from this.
 
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hopeforrecovery

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#14
I think it must also have to do with the electrolyte imbalances and malabsorption, which prompts your body to leech those deficient minerals from your bones.

But I wouldn't take those studies that show bone mass cannot be regained too seriously if I were you, because they don't reflect PFS cases. Bone loss that we have is not part of the natural aging process, and from recovery stories we know that our systems can go from functioning at 20% to functioning at 100% in a matter of months. No current studies, regardless of supplementation, reflect the amount of healing that can occur from a PFS recovery. If there's even a small chance that you can recover the bone loss, why not believe that you will? The obsessive worrying over various PFS symptoms can significantly stress the body and mind, slowing recovery even more. Anyone who has recovered 100% will tell you that one of if not the most important key is to fully believe in your ability to recover. This helps keep you moving forward, keep your mood up, and keep stress low which are all essential.

Good points made regarding precautions against bone loss, though, as many of us could benefit from this.
So do you think that bone loss is possible without feeling any pain?
 

Niles

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#16
So do you think that bone loss is possible without feeling any pain?
Of course it's possible if it happens slowly, because it happens to everyone as they age. But, unless you get a dexa scan and have had one in the past to compare it to, there's no way to medically confirm bone loss with 100% certainty; otherwise you can only guess by appearance, which can get very murky. Hell, you can even develop body dysmorphia about this kind of thing if you read about and obsess over it enough. If there's any question as to whether or not you have bone loss, do yourself a favor and assume that you don't. Take cofactors for bone growth/density as a precaution and then focus on holistic healing that will help your entire organism recover over time. I know from personal experience that getting stuck on this sort of thing will do you absolutely no good. If you're looking for someone on the internet to convince you that you do or do not have bone loss, you will only be disappointed.

For example, a couple of months ago I was absolutely sure that I had bone loss in my face. The structure felt different, the way my teeth fit together felt different, my teeth, jaw, cheeks, and chin were hurting, my gums were swollen and rapidly receding, and I felt that my face looked very different whenever I caught my reflection. Today, my face has filled out a bit, my teeth fit together just as they used to, I have no more pain, and when I look in the mirror I can't say for certain that I ever did suffer any bone loss. Things only started to get better once I stopped obsessing over them and started focusing on my overall health. 100% RDA of all vitamins and minerals through food, strategic supplementation based on hair analysis, consistent exercise that doesn't over-stress the body, meditation, yoga, breathing exercises, going to sleep early, waking up early, no gluten, no processed foods, no refined sugars/carbs, a handful of other lifestyle changes, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, not thinking about PFS symptoms 24/7.
 
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Reverse

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#18
You have better chances of recovering bone if you are under 30 years old imho.

Your bones don't build up as much and you naturally lose mass after 30, atleast thats what I remember reading somewhere.
 

Reverse

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#19
@gbolduev I recently read that have a healthy microbiome is essential for absorption of nutrients into bones. And that taking chelated calcium or animal based calcium is more absorbed.

is chelated calcium ok for us and do u have any recommendations for bone health?
 

Yura

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Mar 12, 2018
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#20
Btw for bone loss don't forget about the most important thing. the gravity. Why you think that old people have bone loss? Because they move less and less. You can have everything perfect, but look at cyclists or even better on cosmonauts(They have bones like jello).. The body is always adapting. Thats why weightlifters have crazy bone density.. You don't need to be a bodybuilder or powerlifter, but 2-3x a week doing some basic exercises with some decent weight like deadlifts, squats are very good idea. They are also amazing testosterone enhancer + it is the best way to keep muscles..(not pumping biceps on the machine, but lift some reasonable heavy weights..) + some body weight exercises for core etc.. Some preferable type of cardio training( I like bike) and some stretching and you are good.. We need to use our bodies. Otherwise mineral balancing and all this doesn't even matter.. + who wants to look like average dude from USA or Europe. It is disgusting.. I would rather die than have tiny arms with zero muscle and huge fat beer gut..
 
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