Are we losing steam in finding cures?

Boris

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I don't at all udnerstand how someone could take a 5-ar inhibitor and end up with high DHT. And then high DHT is responsible for low libido? There are so many bodybuilders and others trying to increase their DHT by any means possible.
If you read some reports on even propecia help people have responded in a hyperandrogenic way both during and after propecia as well.

Because if you block a pathway there is a snapback that can occur after you stop it at least with other natural 5ARis like to tomato juice.
 

slader1

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If you read some reports on even propecia help people have responded in a hyperandrogenic way both during and after propecia as well.

Because if you block a pathway there is a snapback that can occur after you stop it at least with other natural 5ARis like to tomato juice.
A couple months ago my DHT was below range, as well as my total t. My free t was in range but on the low end.

My primary concern now though is these scary neuro symptoms I can't shake. Has anyone had sucess using TEI for brainfog?
 

bruschi11

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A couple months ago my DHT was below range, as well as my total t. My free t was in range but on the low end.

My primary concern now though is these scary neuro symptoms I can't shake. Has anyone had sucess using TEI for brainfog?
Yes a lot of people have. TEI/ ARL, fasting, liver flushes seem to be best way of getting out of mental/ neurological Pfs no doubt.
 
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slader1

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Yes a lot of people have. TEI/ ARL, fasting, liver flushes seem to be best way of getting out of mental/ neurological Pfs no doubt.
Okay, what is a liver flush? Also how did you figure out you had Lyme? Isn't that something that is neurological as well?
 

bruschi11

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Okay, what is a liver flush? Also how did you figure out you had Lyme? Isn't that something that is neurological as well?
I found out I had lyme through a nutritionist named Shawn Bean who works with a doctor. They ran labs on me and saw that manganese was extremely low. They then ran a pathogen test w/ all the major co-infections to Lyme, lyme itself, other pathogen/viral issues like EBV, Coxsackie etc. Saw mycoplasma crazy high, lyme positive, other co-infections present.

Basically lyme and other pathogen based illnesses are everywhere these days, but in some people with malfunctioning immune systems (PFS causes this) the pathogen load can get out of hand. They duplicate crazily fast and the body cannot handle it. It deprives you of nutrients, when it dies it produces its own horrid toxins- like a time bomb in the body. Exotoxins, mycotoxins, ammonia all of these are just horrid to brain and contribute to brain fog.

Its an interesting illness. But its taught me so much about the body. I'm basically forced to learn the Nutritional Balancing Sciences due to it which has been nice. Along with the flushing, fasting as these can really help move forward.

I don't think I have much Lyme left or it bothers me much anymore. I think its more SIBO now that I need to finish off along with keeping a mercury toxicity at bay.

Google "andreas moritz" liver flush. Most of us here do it by ordering malic acid and using that instead of apple juice. We don't go plant based diet either until the day of the flush.
 

hairsuit

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Since my last cycle of TEI, my libido has disappeared. Completely. So for about the last month and a half. Beyond frustrated here. Now not only has it not made us better, it’s made me worse. Often we feel worse ON the cycle, but better off once we hit the rebound. Not this time. This is the worst I’ve been since I crashed 2+ years ago.

As I read through the forums, I’m glad guys are getting health benefits. That’s definite progress. I still hold to the fact that, for the most part, the sexual part of this, we cannot seem to crack. Yes there have been a few, but we have not found anything that is consistently moving us.
 

esp90

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Since my last cycle of TEI, my libido has disappeared. Completely. So for about the last month and a half. Beyond frustrated here. Now not only has it not made us better, it’s made me worse. Often we feel worse ON the cycle, but better off once we hit the rebound. Not this time. This is the worst I’ve been since I crashed 2+ years ago.

As I read through the forums, I’m glad guys are getting health benefits. That’s definite progress. I still hold to the fact that, for the most part, the sexual part of this, we cannot seem to crack. Yes there have been a few, but we have not found anything that is consistently moving us.
It can take many years to get better with these programs from what I've heard
 
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bruschi11

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It can take many years to get better with these programs from what I've heard
I just think some people would do better off with protocols outside the programs. Some people just don’t need an abundance of vitamins and minerals to fix pfs. Heck with @hairsuit it’s making his pfs worse.

In early 2018, my pfs was getting better on electrolytes protocol. Multivitamin once a week, shilajit, electrolyte supplement, magnesium baths, liver flushes, EAAs (specifically histidine/ serine), betaine hcl. Protein meals were what hit me the best regarding sexuality.

I just don’t think an abundance of vits and mins in programs suits a good portion of us.
 

Walker

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I just think some people would do better off with protocols outside the programs. Some people just don’t need an abundance of vitamins and minerals to fix pfs. Heck with @hairsuit it’s making his pfs worse.

In early 2018, my pfs was getting better on electrolytes protocol. Multivitamin once a week, shilajit, electrolyte supplement, magnesium baths, liver flushes, EAAs (specifically histidine/ serine), betaine hcl. Protein meals were what hit me the best regarding sexuality.

I just don’t think an abundance of vits and mins in programs suits a good portion of us.
I would take an alternate approach here. I honestly have been thinking this for awhile for you and others........ Just gotta face it, there's gonna be valleys - just like peaks. We're forgetting that here, I can appreciate your want and "need to heal gracefully" as you called it - but sometimes that just isn't how the cookie crumbles. Sometimes you gotta walk through the dark to get to the light. That's the hardest part about recovering from this horrid condition. I remember going through CD's program and getting some libido back or something for a few weeks, and then watching it crash again and not return for months on end. It's just part of the healing process.

I've told you a few times, although I'm not super scientific or studious in these things, I just don't believe the "kitchen sink" method works. The last time we had this conversation was almost a year and a half ago, and the kitchen sink still hasn't "worked". Sure, people have made improvements here or there, but some people are taking so many different things affecting different pathways at once, that no one can even figure out what is working and what is hurting. If I remember correctly, @hairsuit took finasteride while on his TEI program or on a break from it? And then we're complaining it doesn't work - I just think this is generally a bad conclusion when neither of you are running clean trials of the designed program. I love both of you guys on this forum as you're awesome people and generally you guys just get after it as part of recovery, which is needed. But maybe it's time for a simple reset and simpler approach. You've got four people's inputs to the problem now, Dana, Shawn, Greg, and @Helen - I feel sometimes that too many chefs ruin the soup.

Please, either of you, don't take this as an attack, more as just general advice from a friend who cares. You're going to feel bad through this process, that's just part of it. Trying to take something or manipulate a different pathway everytime that happens is just going to keep you stuck in the same place overall. Every single thing that helped me during my PFS recovery made me feel bad before it made me feel worse. EVERY. SINGLE. THING. That's just part of it, from my opinion. But again, I don't spend the time researching the new studies and the new protocols/pathways because it really doesn't matter to me in my life anymore - I'm purely speaking from prior experience.

Rome wasn't built in a day. Get back to basic building blocks and run those for awhile, and by awhile, I mean six months without adding any "extras". See how you feel. Then approach adding things one or two at a time.
 

bruschi11

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I would take an alternate approach here. I honestly have been thinking this for awhile for you and others........ Just gotta face it, there's gonna be valleys - just like peaks. We're forgetting that here, I can appreciate your want and "need to heal gracefully" as you called it - but sometimes that just isn't how the cookie crumbles. Sometimes you gotta walk through the dark to get to the light. That's the hardest part about recovering from this horrid condition. I remember going through CD's program and getting some libido back or something for a few weeks, and then watching it crash again and not return for months on end. It's just part of the healing process.

I've told you a few times, although I'm not super scientific or studious in these things, I just don't believe the "kitchen sink" method works. The last time we had this conversation was almost a year and a half ago, and the kitchen sink still hasn't "worked". Sure, people have made improvements here or there, but some people are taking so many different things affecting different pathways at once, that no one can even figure out what is working and what is hurting. If I remember correctly, @hairsuit took finasteride while on his TEI program or on a break from it? And then we're complaining it doesn't work - I just think this is generally a bad conclusion when neither of you are running clean trials of the designed program. I love both of you guys on this forum as you're awesome people and generally you guys just get after it as part of recovery which is needed. But maybe it's time for a simple reset and simpler approach. You've got four people's inputs to the problem now, Dana, Shawn, Greg, and @Helen - I feel sometimes that too many chefs ruin the soup.

Please, either of you, don't take this as an attack, more as just general advice from a friend who cares. You're going to feel bad through this process, that's just part of it. Trying to take something or manipulate a different pathway everytime that happens is just going to keep you stuck in the same place overall. Every single thing that helped me during my PFS recovery made me feel bad before it made me feel worse. EVERY. SINGLE. THING. That's just part of it, from my opinion. But again, I don't spend the time researching the new studies and the new protocols/pathways because it really doesn't matter to me in my life anymore - I'm purely speaking from prior experience.

Rome wasn't built in a day. Get back to basic building blocks and run those for awhile, and by awhile, I mean six months without adding any "extras". See how you feel. Then approach adding things one or two at a time.
Wasn't saying this for my general case. My general case, I'm feeling very confident working with Dana and taking into account b2-->b12 pathway very seriously. Spoke with her the other night and we just clicked on so many thoughts based on b2, her general program for me etc. I'm a guy who is benefitting from nutritional therapies currently- but for mainly for reasons outside pfs which a good portion of us need to do before even considering pfs. I've seen some times where libido blossoms in the last couple months since doing this. But what I'm chasing is complete neurological health, perfect digestion/transit, and energy. Once these get good, if PFS still exists, I have a plans for that.

I've had 2 separate weeks in the last 3 months where I've claimed brain, gut, and energy health in a great weay. Normally that coincides with a big boost in sexuality too. I don't know- I may have cured a good portion of my PFS a couple years ago when I was healthy w/ RU/prog, zinc finger stuff. The brain, gut, energy came back post hydrogen. Been in a battle ever since. But the last 3 months have been most promising by far in that time period.

I'm just saying for @hairsuit - ARL, TEI... Helen has been on record saying they are chelation type therapies. Maybe @hairsuit is generally healthy beyond a PFS imbalance and does not need to chelate. Maybe he can look deeper with a nutreval or organic acids like @Admiral just did. Admiral is not getting to dopamine or Serotonin- of course sexuality is suffering. I'm no expert and wish I could give him better advice. But there's definitely something showing on that test that he's not getting to 2 major neurotransmitters that influence sexuality. I wonder if we'd see the same with @hairsuit .
 

Walker

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Wasn't saying this for my general case. My general case, I'm feeling very confident working with Dana and taking into account b2-->b12 pathway very seriously. Spoke with her the other night and we just clicked on so many thoughts based on b2, her general program for me etc. I'm a guy who is benefitting from nutritional therapies currently- but for mainly for reasons outside pfs which a good portion of us need to do before even considering pfs. I've seen some times where libido blossoms in the last couple months since doing this. But what I'm chasing is complete neurological health, perfect digestion/transit, and energy. Once these get good, if PFS still exists, I have a plans for that.

I've had 2 separate weeks in the last 3 months where I've claimed brain, gut, and energy health in a great weay. Normally that coincides with a big boost in sexuality too. I don't know- I may have cured a good portion of my PFS a couple years ago when I was healthy w/ RU/prog, zinc finger stuff. The brain, gut, energy came back post hydrogen. Been in a battle ever since. But the last 3 months have been most promising by far in that time period.

I'm just saying for @hairsuit - ARL, TEI... Helen has been on record saying they are chelation type therapies. Maybe @hairsuit is generally healthy beyond a PFS imbalance and does not need to chelate. Maybe he can look deeper with a nutreval or organic acids like @Admiral just did. Admiral is not getting to dopamine or Serotonin- of course sexuality is suffering. I'm no expert and wish I could give him better advice. But there's definitely something showing on that test that he's not getting to 2 major neurotransmitters that influence sexuality. I wonder if we'd see the same with @hairsuit .
I'm not saying don't explore alternative routes and such based on personal chemistry, experience, etc - I'm saying maybe don't run all four or five routes at once and then end up lost in the woods as to which one led you astray. It's absolutely a different strokes for different folks type of equation, what worked for me might not work for someone else. But, I can tell you that trying to conquer every path at once is going to be extremely confusing, and in my experience and the experience of reading the posts on this forum, not necessarily productive.
 

bruschi11

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I'm not saying don't explore alternative routes and such based on personal chemistry, experience, etc - I'm saying maybe don't run all four or five routes at once and then end up lost in the woods as to which one led you astray. It's absolutely a different strokes for different folks type of equation, what worked for me might not work for someone else. But, I can tell you that trying to conquer every path at once is going to be extremely confusing, and in my experience and the experience of reading the posts on this forum, not necessarily productive.
Eh, I'm really going at this from nutritional balancing perspective as complicated as it sounds. This is far from kitchen sink protocol I'm on. I'm running a program while tinkering with b2, moly. I'm not doing too much outside of the norm except for keeping major eye on the b2 program. Sure I take gut drink 3-4 times a week, but lots of us do on NB.

My point for @hairsuit is that maybe NB isn't right for him anymore. Maybe he's just high on vitamins and minerals now and he's getting short on fats, proteins. Maybe gut flora is suffering (as was shown on @Admiral OA results.) Look at @Goose12 , he got his health incredible with help of NB feeling 100% in everything heck he told me 110%, but sexuality still not where he wants it to be and it plateaued eventually.

I just think when you are feeling in full health. When digestion/transit, brain issues, energy are all great. Maybe its time to back of vitamins and minerals, go at it more from a CDsnuts perspective, electrolytes protocol, zinc finger, progesterone cycles, test organic acids/nutreval..... there are just so many options to take other than a complete nutritional balancing program 3 times a day.

Basically all I'm trying to say is... first we need to find health and it might take a lot of crazy stuff to get there and NB can be a gigantic part of it. Then we need to find homeostasis... and sometimes NB can be too much for your body to find homeostasis.

You and I love NB currently @Walker .... NB is helping us fix years long chronic health issues. But someone who just has PFS. We both, you beat it and I made huge strides, with ways outside of NB that were more based on finding homeostasis.
 
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hairsuit

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It can take many years to get better with these programs from what I've heard
Yes, people say that. I don’t wonder if people tell themselves that to help salve the wound. Yes, throughout the process, there is a back and forth of feeling better and worse on the program. But baseline should increase. It is not. I am coming up on three years of HMTA. This should not be the case. Literally the sexual sides of everything are my last thing to over come and nothing makes it move. That has been the common theme I have seen with people.
 
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bruschi11

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Yes, people say that. I don’t wonder if people tell themselves that to help salve the wound. Yes, throughout the process, there is a back and forth of feeling better and worse on the program. But baseline should increase. It is not. I am coming up on three years of HMTA. This should not be the case. Literally the sexual sides of everything are my last thing to over come and nothing makes it move. That has been the common theme I have scene with people.
You joined hack on Mar 28, 2018. So it hasn’t been 3 years lol.

I do agree with you though. It’s just not working for you and there are other avenues to explore.
 
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hairsuit

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I would take an alternate approach here. I honestly have been thinking this for awhile for you and others........ Just gotta face it, there's gonna be valleys - just like peaks. We're forgetting that here, I can appreciate your want and "need to heal gracefully" as you called it - but sometimes that just isn't how the cookie crumbles. Sometimes you gotta walk through the dark to get to the light. That's the hardest part about recovering from this horrid condition. I remember going through CD's program and getting some libido back or something for a few weeks, and then watching it crash again and not return for months on end. It's just part of the healing process.

I've told you a few times, although I'm not super scientific or studious in these things, I just don't believe the "kitchen sink" method works. The last time we had this conversation was almost a year and a half ago, and the kitchen sink still hasn't "worked". Sure, people have made improvements here or there, but some people are taking so many different things affecting different pathways at once, that no one can even figure out what is working and what is hurting. If I remember correctly, @hairsuit took finasteride while on his TEI program or on a break from it? And then we're complaining it doesn't work - I just think this is generally a bad conclusion when neither of you are running clean trials of the designed program. I love both of you guys on this forum as you're awesome people and generally you guys just get after it as part of recovery, which is needed. But maybe it's time for a simple reset and simpler approach. You've got four people's inputs to the problem now, Dana, Shawn, Greg, and @Helen - I feel sometimes that too many chefs ruin the soup.

Please, either of you, don't take this as an attack, more as just general advice from a friend who cares. You're going to feel bad through this process, that's just part of it. Trying to take something or manipulate a different pathway everytime that happens is just going to keep you stuck in the same place overall. Every single thing that helped me during my PFS recovery made me feel bad before it made me feel worse. EVERY. SINGLE. THING. That's just part of it, from my opinion. But again, I don't spend the time researching the new studies and the new protocols/pathways because it really doesn't matter to me in my life anymore - I'm purely speaking from prior experience.

Rome wasn't built in a day. Get back to basic building blocks and run those for awhile, and by awhile, I mean six months without adding any "extras". See how you feel. Then approach adding things one or two at a time.
@Walker....... taking the fin (microdosing mind you..... like a crumb from a finasteride pill.....) every three to four days, is not going back on finasteride. We (others included) were trying to tease the receptors back into sensitivity.
When we say things like “running clean trials”, technically CD’s protocol falls under the same criticism. You are attacking this from multiple different angles-supplements, diet, messing with hormones, etc. that said, CD’s approach works for some people. I think this concept of not experimenting with other things in between cycles is no different from CD or any other protocol that others have used.
Peaks and valleys. Absolutely. However when the trajectory has been heading downwards, that is not improving. It’s funny, I find myself longing to go back to the past times where I was still crashed, but better than I am now. I am rooting for all of us here. I just don’t think there is anything wrong in admitting that we are at a stand still with the one aspect of this god awful plague that we all experience the most. Sexual function. It is the most common, the experienced of the side effects. It is also the one thing that we can’t seem to overcome. Brain fog, fatigue, all the other sides seem to subside through the various protocols we use. That’s awesome! It’s the sexual stuff that seems to escape us.
 

Trump_1776

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Yes, people say that. I don’t wonder if people tell themselves that to help salve the wound. Yes, throughout the process, there is a back and forth of feeling better and worse on the program. But baseline should increase. It is not. I am coming up on three years of HMTA. This should not be the case. Literally the sexual sides of everything are my last thing to over come and nothing makes it move. That has been the common theme I have scene with people.
Ya dont say?