Andrea (PFS Log)

Andrea

Well-Known Member
Jul 4, 2019
70
23
8
Italy
#1
At the moment I'm using testosterone gel (30mg/day) with very good results in all aspects (mental, physical, sexual).
However it's a vicious cycle.
Every cycle last about 48-72 hours then the effect disappeared.
I stop then I restart after about a week. Do and repeat. Works then stop.
Every cycle starts (in this order) with insane muscle tone (wide shoulders in almost zero time), deep voice, energy, strong libido and erections, clear mind, no anxiety, well-being.
I use a1a blocker to treat excess adrenergic tone (chest tension) and it works good.
At the moment I have persistent huge pot belly (bloating and visceral fat) (estrogen dominance?) (insulin resistance?).
Blood exams shows low estradiol and low testosterone for my age (I have 70 yo man T levels lol) (however no clinical testosterone deficiency)
I have thin body hair in armpit and thin pubic hair, almost no growth and penis shrinkage. (apparently it seems simple hypogonadism)
TRT is surely helpful but it stop working for no apparent reason and I have to restart everytime. (the therapy however needs a cumulative dosage over time to work)
Any advice? Androgen receptor overexpression? Estrogen dominance? Minerals deficiency?
Clomiphene (SERM) is the only drug that gives me virilization until I use it (muscle hardness, big nuts, thicker body hair and beard, masculine face, deep voice etc.)
Only side effect is black depression.
Apparently it seems a problem with estrogens (I am able to grow thicker body hair and beard so 5ar seems not fucked).
Do you have read about a case like mine?
Thank you.
 

brix

Well-Known Member
Oct 4, 2017
656
401
63
#2
At the moment I'm using testosterone gel (30mg/day) with very good results in all aspects (mental, physical, sexual).
However it's a vicious cycle.
Every cycle last about 48-72 hours then the effect disappeared.
I stop then I restart after about a week. Do and repeat. Works then stop.
Every cycle starts (in this order) with insane muscle tone (wide shoulders in almost zero time), deep voice, energy, strong libido and erections, clear mind, no anxiety, well-being.
I use a1a blocker to treat excess adrenergic tone (chest tension) and it works good.
At the moment I have persistent huge pot belly (bloating and visceral fat) (estrogen dominance?) (insulin resistance?).
Blood exams shows low estradiol and low testosterone for my age (I have 70 yo man T levels lol) (however no clinical testosterone deficiency)
I have thin body hair in armpit and thin pubic hair, almost no growth and penis shrinkage. (apparently it seems simple hypogonadism)
TRT is surely helpful but it stop working for no apparent reason and I have to restart everytime. (the therapy however needs a cumulative dosage over time to work)
Any advice? Androgen receptor overexpression? Estrogen dominance? Minerals deficiency?
Clomiphene (SERM) is the only drug that gives me virilization until I use it (muscle hardness, big nuts, thicker body hair and beard, masculine face, deep voice etc.)
Only side effect is black depression.
Apparently it seems a problem with estrogens (I am able to grow thicker body hair and beard so 5ar seems not fucked).
Do you have read about a case like mine?
Thank you.
That’s too much testosterone. It’s going to convert to too much estrogen and shut you down.
 

Andrea

Well-Known Member
Jul 4, 2019
70
23
8
Italy
#3
That’s too much testosterone. It’s going to convert to too much estrogen and shut you down.
Really? With a small dose like 10 mg/day I feel nothing.
EDIT: So is all problem about testosterone/estradiol ratio? Saw Palmetto and Finasteride messed up my aromatase activity/estrogen receptor to compensate dht reduction?
 
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Andrea

Well-Known Member
Jul 4, 2019
70
23
8
Italy
#4
I'm trying testosterone gel at 10mg/day now.
Yesterday evening huge motivation, aggressiveness and muscle tone (also dramatic oily skin and seborrhea).
Today I have black depression, fatigue, no muscle tone (no pumping maybe insulin resistance?) and suicidal behavior.
What the hell is going on?!
In only 24 hours a severe change like black and white.
Any advice?
@brix do you know something? Estrogen excess also at 10mg/day?
 
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RebelWithACause

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2018
2,253
2,563
113
The Netherlands
LOCATION
The Netherlands
#6
Update: apparently I respond good to testosterone gel even without a1a blocker.
Improvements in all areas. I have also lost a couple of kilos.
Actually I'm at 20 mg/day.
What is your plan? Take the gel forever? Or do you do cycles?
 

Andrea

Well-Known Member
Jul 4, 2019
70
23
8
Italy
#7
What is your plan? Take the gel forever? Or do you do cycles?
My endo has prescribed me testo gel for some months.
I have to inform him monthly about my condition.
Actually I have made consistent improvements maybe due to cumulative dosage over time.
At first I responded quickly and massively with insane androgenic effects (androgen overexpression?) then strong anxiety, depression, chest pressure and short breath. So I need to stop and restart like I have written before.
Now I have no more these problems. I had also a couple of moments when my palpitations during the day disappear and I felt in heaven.
I have no fatigue during the day and I experience pleasure to go out. Libido is good and orgasm is very fine.
My major problems are physical. Pot belly (insulin resistance?), penile shrinkage (low testosterone and fat belly?) and muscle mass (insulin resistance?).
The good news is that testosterone works so I can think about also other formulations (for example testosterone undecanoate).
Actually I am followed by an endo who teach at medical school and he has worked previously for Pfizer, Astra Zeneca, Takeda, Eli Lilly, Bayer, Glaxo SKB, Jhonson & Jhonson and Schering.
 

Andrea

Well-Known Member
Jul 4, 2019
70
23
8
Italy
#11
So no benefits to the physical sides with testosterone yet?
Some muscle tone maybe due to insulin sensitivity and some kilos lost.
However after finasteride I turned into an hypogonadal body shape: penis shrinkage like 7 yo boy, very thin armpit and pubic hair, low testicular volume, no more deep voice, thin beard, fat around belly and hips.
It's difficult to obtain testosterone injections from specialist because I have no testosterone deficiency in blood exam (only low T for my age).
 
Dec 29, 2018
29
7
3
34
USA
#13
Some muscle tone maybe due to insulin sensitivity and some kilos lost.
However after finasteride I turned into an hypogonadal body shape: penis shrinkage like 7 yo boy, very thin armpit and pubic hair, low testicular volume, no more deep voice, thin beard, fat around belly and hips.
It's difficult to obtain testosterone injections from specialist because I have no testosterone deficiency in blood exam (only low T for my age).
Same here. I miss my old bulge
 
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Andrea

Well-Known Member
Jul 4, 2019
70
23
8
Italy
#14
Update: I'm better.
Only bad lasted sides are pot belly and shrunken penis (probably correlated).
Do you think I need nebido?
 

Andrea

Well-Known Member
Jul 4, 2019
70
23
8
Italy
#16
Update: I'm pretty good with testosterone gel. My endo has increased the dosage to 30 mg/daily.
However, I have done some blood exams and I have found high triglycerides levels (I think that before they were higher).
I will try to correct them with proper diet and more exercise and cardio.
I have attached the screenshot of my exams.
 

Attachments

Andrea

Well-Known Member
Jul 4, 2019
70
23
8
Italy
#17
Update: my endo has prescribed fish oil (omega 3) to treat hypertriglyceridemia.
I started yesterday and last night I couldn't sleep. I had to take 5 mg of diazepam to sleep. Terrible insomnia.
Today I take the second pill of omega 3 and I have insane depression.
I have read that omega 3 are 5ari...
Is it really possible to have awful side effects like these from fish oil?!
 

MNK99

Well-Known Member
Nov 6, 2017
3,888
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International Waters - Whaling
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#18
I think fasting (serious fasting not 3 days) is in order. Not sure, depression in one day from fish oil. Most these things don't work for me.
I don't need it now but used to think I needed it for anxiety when I was a kid and considered but was too sick to actually go to a doctor, let alone eloquently and convincingly explain PFS and why I needed it (diazepam). Does it actually help you sleep? It might, if it hasn't yet.

If you're too skinny or don't want to, surely there's other ways.

-anyways brought back facial hair, body hair, adam's apple a bit, voice for sure, testicular size, some mind-genitalia connection, some androgenicity, some bodyshape (actually a lot ... was jacked again but for fluid / fat but that took 5more mo to get rid of then a few more to annhilate). also brought back mood regulation (pretty good). And will to live. ambition. response to things like randro 4andro, ru486. digestion. vision tracing, vision astigmatism, ability to eat, shower, shave, stand, etc.
(basically a ton more symptoms, but in essence: saved my life, hence recommending it. also helped a lot of others on swole, and other places like here).
-lots of other tactics/ practices/ interventions/ actions and behaviours brought back the rest of the above, and other issues/symptoms.
-treat the entire issue (syndrome) holistically ... even if drugs utilized down the line, it is minerals, androgen deprivation related, and a lot more. no one can explain this adequately in a couple lines. it's a lot of things at once. everything is minerals, hormonal, neurosteroidal, electrochemical, physical, and mental depending on the context and philosophical lens in which something is being looked at.
 
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MNK99

Well-Known Member
Nov 6, 2017
3,888
2,534
113
International Waters - Whaling
www.youtube.com
LOCATION
God's Imagination./Limbo.
#20
dude read first log or posts. i literally stopped updating 2 years ago. mostly random bs now.
26days plus jan 2018 to feb something. 14d at times. a lot anyways just to make sure i dont get fat (which is retarded because i hae never been fat as an adult outside of fin or effexor briefly). but also helps mood/focus (outside pfs discussion to keep simple).
-2months juice before that. hence tired sad scared pre march 2018. can see on old posts. june basically felt 80% wrote recov 90 plus swole source, imgur, and also: solve pfs. by aug last yr.
-OF COURSE it was NOT just fasting. (and it was tough).
-BUT* im saying, fasting turned on a lot of stuff for me. (thank god and thx advice here and swole).
--I was merely getting a couple points across. 1. that fasting can get ppl out of their whole.

-also read this / posted discord:
---when doing something major like that, you can get sidetracked ,... freakout... change mind... get depressed... hear something/read something... and reneg, so better to focus on yourself. like always in life (outside of family, business, friends etc, but that's when healthy).
--as in if attempting a LONG water fast, or in 0 health or minus 10000 health percentage points, do you only focus on you, 90days, turn off net, fast, refeed, have randro on hand, ru, ella on hand, wait 2 weeks, etc etc, others can expln better than me (probably not many, but they likely have more patience than me).

-in sum: @sanka, it kickstarted recov for me. POSSIBLY other ways to get there, for me, not sure... if i couldnt fast i guess tei, but im sure it would also be tough in that state.

-Also for the record I had voice messages explaining (maybe 20mins max) to my brother ( a doc), and my psychiatrist (pretty good doc , 3000km away tho), what i did to recover, lost them. will rerecord sometime in future as many find it easier to understand what I'm saying in audio than in writing. (mostly by design, I've always been vague and confusing. also accidentally though).
 
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