5 alpha’s new log

5 alpha

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Oct 3, 2017
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#1
I figured I would start a new log because I’m going to be doing some new trials and experiments attempting to cure PFS or at least get improvements in my symptoms.

My story is scattered around so I thought I would share my history first. I’m 35 years old and have been suffering from PFS since twenty six. For me it started after taking a product from GNC called methyl arimatest. At the time I knew nothing about hormones or what I was doing and was only interested in taking what my friends told me would help me “bulk up”. Methyl arimatest was marketed at as a “testosterone booster” so I got it and took it for fun. Methyl arimatest was loaded with Saw P and after taking it for less than two weeks I developed all of the typical PFS sexual side effects while on it. I discontinued it and the symptoms never went away.

For the next three-four years I visited several endo’s. Some of the best in Boston, MA who did a substantial amount of blood work and could not figure out why my hormones were low or why after raising my hormones with Clomid and TRT none of my symptoms went away. During this time I had no idea what PFS was or that I had it.

Interestingly when I was twenty two years old I had an extremely inflamed prostate. In reality all I needed was antibiotics. Instead the urologist who treated me put me on a month of antibiotics and Avodart (dut). I recovered from the inflamed prostate and did not get PFS. In fact I experienced no adverse side effects at all during or after taking a month of taking the most powerful prescription DHT inhibitor on the market. It was not until four years later and taking the Saw P in the “testosterone booster” that I got PFS. This point suggests that this is not a genetic predisposition but rather your body being in a “perfect storm” type of environment.

Anyways, when I was twenty nine and still not having a clue that I had PFS and still hopelessly going to endo’s and urologists trying to figure out what the problem was I ended up at one urologist in Washington, DC who after hearing everything that I explained here came to the conclusion that my prostrate issue from when I was younger was the cause of all my problems and the connection I was making with the “testosterone booster” from GNC was invalid and that I was “over thinking everything”. He told me to go to GNC and get Saw P and take it for a month. He insisted that my prostate would shrink and that all of my symptoms would go away.

I followed his advice and went on Saw P for two weeks (“my second round of Saw P”). It almost killed me and I’m not being overly dramatic. The suffering that I experienced from this second round of Saw P was horrible which was about four years into already having PFS and still not knowing it. It will make most folks with PFS think that they have had it easy and trust me I know that nothing about living with this awful condition is easy. I have never really even mentioned in detail what happened on any of these forums until now. This is what happened:

1) At the end of the two week mark of my “second round of Saw P” I became extremely constipated. No change in sexual symptoms because I already suffered from complete ED. I discontinued the Saw P on the 14th day exactly after experiencing severe constipation.

2) My constipation did not go away. Instead it just continued on in the weeks following coming off the Saw P. At the 5 week mark of not being able to relieve my bowels I could no longer eat. Every time I tried I would just feel like I was going to throw up. My stomach stuck out in a way that you could tell something was wrong. All I could do was drink water and liquify my food to survive. I had a cat scan done that showed severe constipation. All the doctors wanted to do was put me on anti anxiety and depression medication.

3) At about the 6 week mark I felt strong urges to go the bathroom. I tried several times and couldn’t. I was straining so hard during this time that three disks in my lower back buldged. It was extremely painful. Finally towards the end of the six week mark I started to go and over the next several weeks every time that I did go I got horrible pain in my lower back.

4) The severe constipation was not it. After coming off of my “second round of Saw P” I developed severe insomnia. It just started right when I stopped the Saw P. I stayed up all night. It continued for six weeks. I got zero sleep for six weeks. At the four week mark I was so tired that my brain hurt. Despite being so tired my brain would simply not switch off into the cycles of sleep. This was also the time that I discovered the PH website and learned what PFS was and the now obvious connection with Saw P.

I did not miss one day of work during this time. How I made it through this without missing one day is beyond me. I looked like hell and could feel my self dying but I kept going. I could feel my body shutting down due to complete inability to sleep. This was during the same period of time that I could not eat solid foods because I could not go to the bathroom. I have never told anyone this before but after discovering PFS and the PH website towards the end before my insomnia finally broke I was trying to push my self to kill myself. This is how bad the suffering was during that time. I was at work went in the bathroom tried to go and could not. I took my gun out put it in my mouth aiming towards the brainstem and could not do it. I had the trigger at the trigger reset point. I knew I was not going to do it but really wanted to. The fact that I did not have the guts only made things more hopeless.

I stayed up for exactly six weeks. I would take the ED, the severe constipation, the disk injuries in my back I sustained while being severely constipated, the constant nerve pain that I get to this day from my disks pressing on my nerves ANY DAY over the pain I experienced while staying up for six weeks. Words can’t describe how painful that was. What your brain feels like is just unexplainable.

The first time I finally slept after the six weeks of pure hell was for forty five min and I was so happy when I woke up that I cried. It was the biggest relief. This story is wild and I have never shared the whole thing before with anyone. The next day after I slept for forty five min I found CD’s basic original recovery protocol on PH and started doing it. The paleo diet, the vitamins the herb cycling. I got better and really have come a long way over the last five years. I eventually did a seven day juice only fast as well but should have really did this at the beginning.

My digestion and sleep are about 80 percent recovered as long as I at least stay on the basic version of his protocol I do not fall back and continue to get better in these areas. As soon as I stop following it I fall backwards. My sexual sides are about fifty recent recovered and still life altering. The injury sustained to my lumbar spine while severely constipated has progressed over the last five years and is life altering. One of the three damaged disks became herniated from standing with twenty pounds of gear on at work for 8-12 hrs in one spot at a time. I’m not able to stand anymore than twenty min at a time without being in severe pain with numbness running down my right leg because the disk is on my nerve. I’m disabled due to this and unable to do any job that I’m “officially qualified” for.

I still work out and do sprints though haha. When the pain in my back gets too bad which does not take long I stop and go stretch . So for me there is no stopping or giving up. I did almost cure my sexual sides at one point in 2017 by taking RU. I had a temporary RU induced 80 percent recovery in all sexual sides. So I’m not a recovery story. But was one of the worst ones off in all areas except mental sides. So from where I came from side effect wise I have made it far. I also plan on being a full recovery story. I refuse to let PFS be the final chapter in my life. I’ll update with my plan to avoid this post being any longer than it already is.

Cheers
 
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bruschi11

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2017
2,222
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Boston, MA
#2
Omg dude I had no idea extent of what happened to you. Everything you’ve posted made me believe your issues were solely sexual.

I’m so sorry for what you went through. I’m so glad you’ve made the progress you’ve made and you never pulled that trigger.

Pfs will not be your final chapter. You will get out of this.
 

5 alpha

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2017
336
163
43
#4
Omg dude I had no idea extent of what happened to you. Everything you’ve posted made me believe your issues were solely sexual.

I’m so sorry for what you went through. I’m so glad you’ve made the progress you’ve made and you never pulled that trigger.

Pfs will not be your final chapter. You will get out of this.
I more or less solved the constipation and sleep issues that’s why I usually don’t focus on them. They no longer and have not for a while negatively effected my life or held me back.

The real bad insomnia after my second round of Saw P faded on its own to the point where it was not so great sleep for like five hrs at a time. But after staying up for six weeks this was heaven compared to that haha

Now after doing CD’s sleep protocol for a while now and having all the free time in the world I sleep for 8-9 hrs at a time. If I have a bad sleep day it’s not a lasting thing the next day is usually better.

Thanks for the positive outlook. It seems like we are working on a lot of new ideas taking us in new directions .
 

5 alpha

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2017
336
163
43
#6
Shortly after my first 50mg/three day RU cycle in 2017 I recovered all sexual sides to about 80 percent over a four-five week period following the cycle. This was the only thing that I have ever tried that gave me these types of improvements in this area.

At the end of the 4-5 week short recovery I got involved in a lawsuit that took up most of my free time and caused a great amount of stress. This was also the time that my results from the RU cycle faded until I was back to square one. I speculate that the rise in cortisol from the new stress following my Cycle caused me to fade backwards. I don’t know why or how but this is what my gut feeling is telling me. The other thing that complicated things even more is that I tried running 50/mg of RU for three days on three other occasions over the last two years with no luck on the snap back like the first time.

Assuming cortisol is to blame maybe I can make RU work again by playing with my cortisol levels before and after trying another run with RU. Before doing so I first need to figure out what happened’s when I raise cortisol and what happened’s when I Lower it with out taking RU.

So for now my first experiment is simple. Raise cortisol levels with Licorice Extract. I’m going to take it for three days at 525 mg in tincture form once per day in a three day on/three day off rotation. Doing this for a few weeks will give me an idea as to how I respond to simply raising cortisol without blocking the the cortisol or prog receptors.

Sat/sun/mon 525 mg of Licorice Extract
Tue, wen, Thu Off
And so for a month.
 

5 alpha

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2017
336
163
43
#7
Shortly after my first 50mg/three day RU cycle in 2017 I recovered all sexual sides to about 80 percent over a four-five week period following the cycle. This was the only thing that I have ever tried that gave me these types of improvements in this area.

At the end of the 4-5 week short recovery I got involved in a lawsuit that took up most of my free time and caused a great amount of stress. This was also the time that my results from the RU cycle faded until I was back to square one. I speculate that the rise in cortisol from the new stress following my Cycle caused me to fade backwards. I don’t know why or how but this is what my gut feeling is telling me. The other thing that complicated things even more is that I tried running 50/mg of RU for three days on three other occasions over the last two years with no luck on the snap back like the first time.

Assuming cortisol is to blame maybe I can make RU work again by playing with my cortisol levels before and after trying another run with RU. Before doing so I first need to figure out what happened’s when I raise cortisol and what happened’s when I Lower it with out taking RU.

So for now my first experiment is simple. Raise cortisol levels with Licorice Extract. I’m going to take it for three days at 525 mg in tincture form once per day in a three day on/three day off rotation. Doing this for a few weeks will give me an idea as to how I respond to simply raising cortisol without blocking the the cortisol or prog receptors.

Sat/sun/mon 525 mg of Licorice Extract
Tue, wen, Thu Off
And so for a month.
I’m going to log my first full cycle of Licorice (sat, sun, mon ON tue, wen thu OFF) than every other cycle I’m going to comment on at the end of it before starting the next.

Sat Aug 10th-525 Mg dose in tincture. Took it at 8pm. Went to gym at 11pm. Felt like I more energy and focus than usual. Muscles got more pumped and solid then usual. Blood flow felt increased. Super R Andro would not do this after one dose.

Was overly stimulated in a way that felt unhealthy all night. Sleep was bad. Feel like my resting blood pressure was higher than it’s been.

I do think it’s odd that we react this strongly to Licorice. I can’t imagine that it increases cortisol by that much. Suggests that at least in certain cases of PFS we are extremely sensitive to our cortisol levels rising.

Overall day one strong reaction. So far can’t draw any conclusions if it’s good or bad.
 
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mbax44

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2018
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florida
#8
Brutal. Condolences. Whoever thought it was a good idea to include saw palmetto in all these supplements should be shot. Stuff is seriously gross.
 

MNK99

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Nov 6, 2017
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#9
probably some sort of homicidal sexual deviant.
Brutal. Condolences. Whoever thought it was a good idea to include saw palmetto in all these supplements should be shot. Stuff is seriously gross.
 
Likes: K8668B

5 alpha

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2017
336
163
43
#10
Brutal. Condolences. Whoever thought it was a good idea to include saw palmetto in all these supplements should be shot. Stuff is seriously gross.
It really is. It’s nasty stuff. It’s not something that a lot of people are aware of.
 

MNK99

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#12
some are ok
 
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5 alpha

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Oct 3, 2017
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#13
Second dose: Sunday August 11th at 1445 took 525 mg tincture. I’m moving for earlier dosage seeing that it’s stimulating like caffeine and kept me up last night. Same thing as yesterday. Clearly felt it’s effect 3-4 hrs after taking it. Had more energy in the gym got better work out. My skin feels a little more oil like. If I did not know what I was taking I would have to say I was taking a DHT pro hormone. Maybe I’ll end up with some decent gains in the gym from Licorice extract haha... WTF...

The effect today was not as strong as yesterday but almost as strong. I’m thinking that if my cycles follow this pattern the effect will be less and less noticeable every time I take it. I’m hoping that this is not the case. Even though I don’t really like it I want to feel it strongly every time for the best chance at snap back on my off days. Maybe if my tolerance to it grows fast after my three off days it will be just as strong again. I could also up the dosage if needed.

I feel like this stuff has potential from the perspective that for a herb taken at a low dosage having such a pronounced effect in such a short time. I mean I’m still herb cycling seven different herbs and not one of them comes close to the strength of the effect this stuff has.
 
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5 alpha

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2017
336
163
43
#14
Second dose: Sunday August 11th at 1445 took 525 mg tincture. I’m moving for earlier dosage seeing that it’s stimulating like caffeine and kept me up last night. Same thing as yesterday. Clearly felt it’s effect 3-4 hrs after taking it. Had more energy in the gym got better work out. My skin feels a little more oil like. If I did not know what I was taking I would have to say I was taking a DHT pro hormone. Maybe I’ll end up with some decent gains in the gym from Licorice extract haha... WTF...

The effect today was not as strong as yesterday but almost as strong. I’m thinking that if my cycles follow this pattern the effect will be less and less noticeable every time I take it. I’m hoping that this is not the case. Even though I don’t really like it I want to feel it strongly every time for the best chance at snap back on my off days. Maybe if my tolerance to it grows fast after my three off days it will be just as strong again. I could also up the dosage if needed.

I feel like this stuff has potential from the perspective that for a herb taken at a low dosage having such a pronounced effect in such a short time. I mean I’m still herb cycling seven different herbs and not one of them comes close to the strength of the effect this stuff has.
Today day three of my first three day licorice cycle.
Yesterday second night slept like shit. Was pretty much not making it past stage 1 sleep tossing and turning all night. Not complete sleeplessness but real shitty.

Today for day three I took the 525 mg in tincture at 1:45PM. Slowly moving back earlier and earlier into day for the best chance of sleep at night. I’m never in a rush to take it because I really don’t like it and have no desire to feel like this haha. But it’s not that bad. I’ll prob end up dosing it as soon as I get out of bed for my next cycle.

Same thing today. Overly stimulated, alert and energized. Get more pissed at stuff easier. I honestly feel like I’m on DHT pro hormones. But it’s not a good feeling. Like DHT pro hormones with this anxiety feeling. It’s unusual. Going to gym.

Only thing I have liked about the last three days is the effect in the gym. Everything else I’m not a fan of how I feel on this stuff. Hopefully I see improvements on the snap back over next three days. Either way I’m running these cycles for a month unless something gets real fucked up. No pain no gain haha
 

Ergogenic Health

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2019
88
36
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23
Melbourne
#15
I am here for support man, feel free to DM me or anything. I know how you're feeling and I am currently battling similar negative symptoms too.

"Overly stimulated, alert and energized. Get more pissed at stuff easier." - That is licorice for me too haha!! But the workouts are awesome.
 

5 alpha

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2017
336
163
43
#16
Day 4 -off day. Have gone over twenty four hours without taking licorice extract. Overly stimulated feeling fading. Did sleep better last night after going all in on my sleep assist arsenal. Magnesium powder, Magnesium body spray, glycine double dose and table spoon of ziziphus. Fact that I dosed licorice earlier in day yesterday helped as well.

After waking up on decent nights sleep I had a thought. I wonder if I’m wrong about cycling licorice.

I have 2014 blood labs that show I have low 3b-adiol as in flagged low not just on the low end.
3B-HSD and 17B-HSD converts DHT into 3B-adiol

The same labs from 2014 also show I’m
Low in androstenedione. 3β-HSD converts DHEA
to androstenedione in the adneral gland

With this being said (and I need to get new more recent tests done for 3B-adiol and androstenedione to see if this is still the case) it appears that I have an issue with 3B-HSD.

Now I did not pick up on this at first but licorice extract is inhibiting 3B-HSD which is how it’s increasing cortisol... at least according to this study anyway

Licorice abuse: time to send a warning message

So the obvious question becomes if licorice is inhibiting the 3B-HSD enzyme and if my 3B-HSD may already be damaged why would I want to inhibit 3B-HSD even more ?

The thing that makes me concerned about having low 3B-Adiol is that 3B-Adiol helps activate the estrogen receptor and I get worse when I inhibit estrogen. Also low 3B-Adiol had been implicated in being responsible for prostate cancer. Low 3B-Adiol has also been suspected as one of the causes in which 5 alpha reductase inhibiter’s have been linked to high grade prostate cancers later on after using it.

I have to rethink this....

Does anyone know the mechanism in which Saw P, Fin, Dut inhibits 3B-HSD? And why 3B-HSD would stay inhibited even when 5AR seems to return back to normal after stopping a DHT inhibitor?
 

Ergogenic Health

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2019
88
36
18
23
Melbourne
#17
Omg has anyone seen this?!?!

Vitamin A

Following our earlier demonstration that RAR-α upregulates CRH expression,12 we now show that disturbed GR negative feedback is involved in RA-induced HPA hyperactivity. We demonstrate that (i) acute RA infusion elevates CORT secretion through RAR-α; (ii) chronic RA treatment increased CRH and decreased GR expression in the hypothalamic PVN, indicative of impaired HPA feedback inhibition; (iii) RA abolished GR-mediated repression of CRH expression by glucocorticoids in vitro, indicating a negative cross-talk between RAR-α and GR signaling; (iv) the RA-induced HPA hyperactivity, CRH overexpression and disturbances in GR negative feedback could all be quickly normalized by treatment with the GR antagonist mifepristone.
@Helen
 
May 16, 2018
23
32
13
28
india
#18
Day 4 -off day. Have gone over twenty four hours without taking licorice extract. Overly stimulated feeling fading. Did sleep better last night after going all in on my sleep assist arsenal. Magnesium powder, Magnesium body spray, glycine double dose and table spoon of ziziphus. Fact that I dosed licorice earlier in day yesterday helped as well.

After waking up on decent nights sleep I had a thought. I wonder if I’m wrong about cycling licorice.

I have 2014 blood labs that show I have low 3b-adiol as in flagged low not just on the low end.
3B-HSD and 17B-HSD converts DHT into 3B-adiol

The same labs from 2014 also show I’m
Low in androstenedione. 3β-HSD converts DHEA
to androstenedione in the adneral gland

With this being said (and I need to get new more recent tests done for 3B-adiol and androstenedione to see if this is still the case) it appears that I have an issue with 3B-HSD.

Now I did not pick up on this at first but licorice extract is inhibiting 3B-HSD which is how it’s increasing cortisol... at least according to this study anyway

Licorice abuse: time to send a warning message

So the obvious question becomes if licorice is inhibiting the 3B-HSD enzyme and if my 3B-HSD may already be damaged why would I want to inhibit 3B-HSD even more ?

The thing that makes me concerned about having low 3B-Adiol is that 3B-Adiol helps activate the estrogen receptor and I get worse when I inhibit estrogen. Also low 3B-Adiol had been implicated in being responsible for prostate cancer. Low 3B-Adiol has also been suspected as one of the causes in which 5 alpha reductase inhibiter’s have been linked to high grade prostate cancers later on after using it.

I have to rethink this....

Does anyone know the mechanism in which Saw P, Fin, Dut inhibits 3B-HSD? And why 3B-HSD would stay inhibited even when 5AR seems to return back to normal after stopping a DHT inhibitor?
My past bloods also show low 3b-hsd.
 

Aflac94

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2017
408
230
43
United States
#20
Day 4 -off day. Have gone over twenty four hours without taking licorice extract. Overly stimulated feeling fading. Did sleep better last night after going all in on my sleep assist arsenal. Magnesium powder, Magnesium body spray, glycine double dose and table spoon of ziziphus. Fact that I dosed licorice earlier in day yesterday helped as well.

After waking up on decent nights sleep I had a thought. I wonder if I’m wrong about cycling licorice.

I have 2014 blood labs that show I have low 3b-adiol as in flagged low not just on the low end.
3B-HSD and 17B-HSD converts DHT into 3B-adiol

The same labs from 2014 also show I’m
Low in androstenedione. 3β-HSD converts DHEA
to androstenedione in the adneral gland

With this being said (and I need to get new more recent tests done for 3B-adiol and androstenedione to see if this is still the case) it appears that I have an issue with 3B-HSD.

Now I did not pick up on this at first but licorice extract is inhibiting 3B-HSD which is how it’s increasing cortisol... at least according to this study anyway

Licorice abuse: time to send a warning message

So the obvious question becomes if licorice is inhibiting the 3B-HSD enzyme and if my 3B-HSD may already be damaged why would I want to inhibit 3B-HSD even more ?

The thing that makes me concerned about having low 3B-Adiol is that 3B-Adiol helps activate the estrogen receptor and I get worse when I inhibit estrogen. Also low 3B-Adiol had been implicated in being responsible for prostate cancer. Low 3B-Adiol has also been suspected as one of the causes in which 5 alpha reductase inhibiter’s have been linked to high grade prostate cancers later on after using it.

I have to rethink this....

Does anyone know the mechanism in which Saw P, Fin, Dut inhibits 3B-HSD? And why 3B-HSD would stay inhibited even when 5AR seems to return back to normal after stopping a DHT inhibitor?
Bump this is an @Helen level question lol